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Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
alan
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby alan » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:13 am

The Buddha himself was not specific about his rebirths.
He came to an understanding of the relation of rebirth and kamma only upon his awakening.
Therefore:
Don't waste time thinking about it. And don't believe any average person who says they know. They don't!

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tiltbillings
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:13 am


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Zom
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby Zom » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:19 am


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Mr Man
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby Mr Man » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:58 am

What I don't get is why there is a wish to correlate the studies of Ian Stevenson with the teachings of Buddhism. For me Buddhist practice stands up well with out the need for "scientific" validation. The kind of validation that can come from such non-mainstream views as that of Ian Stevenson can in my opinion only have the reverse of it's intended effect.

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cooran
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby cooran » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:02 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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tiltbillings
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:06 am


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Mr Man
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby Mr Man » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:01 am

Hi cooran & all
What I meant is when Ian Stevenson's research is used to try and validate Buddhist doctrine it often has the reverse of it's 'intended effect. I don't think it adds anything and my opinion is that it may actually take something away because from what I have observed it tends to move the debate towards a thicket of views. And although his work is interesting i personally don't think it is strongly credible, at this time.

PeterB
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby PeterB » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:10 am

I agree entirely Mr Man, with each of your points. My only caveat would be that I think that you are over generous in your assessment of Stevenson's credibility.
His science stinks. It would not take a Richard Dawkins to drive a coach and several pairs of horses through it.
The only reason it has stayed relative unmauled is that no one takes it seriously enough to unload any big guns in its direction.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:40 am


PeterB
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby PeterB » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:31 am

Anytime... :smile:

PeterB
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby PeterB » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:46 pm

One inconvenient issue that is usually omitted in any Buddhist discussion of Stevenson is the fact that the data that he claims to produce supports the idea of Hindu type Reincarnation....including a " carrying forward " of various physical characteristics.... that are at odds with the Buddhist concept of Punabhava.
He is actually positing the reincarnation of an atman.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:13 pm


chownah
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby chownah » Wed Oct 05, 2011 2:37 am

For many it is interesting to find stories of reincarnation, to study stories of reincarnation, to delight in stories of reincarnation........but is this going to help us to reach the goal?....is this skillful?......it can be if one observes this finding, studying, and delighting as it arises and as a result comes to grip with this doctrine of self.....I guess.....
chownah

fijiNut
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby fijiNut » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:05 am


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Zom
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby Zom » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:52 pm

:goodpost:

Yes, indeed - doubting in rebirth means that your Right View factor is not yet complete.

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daverupa
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby daverupa » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:25 pm


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kirk5a
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby kirk5a » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:50 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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ancientbuddhism
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby ancientbuddhism » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:30 pm

Debates like this cast Western Buddhists in an embarrassing light. Cultural Buddhists seem to either accept canonical rebirth and all the local underpinnings of mythos at face value, or they are openly skeptical, all without the condescension I have right-view and you don’t, and without the specious science of Mr. Stevenson to help support some dogma.
I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)


PeterB
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby PeterB » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:37 pm

:goodpost:
My thoughts exactly.
In would seem that for some their need to belong to a club, to comfort themselves by identifying themselves as part of an inner core of true believers overwhelms what in other circumstances would trip the most clanging of alarm bells.

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Aloka
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Postby Aloka » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:59 pm



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