Why one meal a day?

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cooran
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Postby cooran » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:25 pm

Hello all,

This might be of interest:

Excerpt from: Uposatha Sila = The Eight-Precept Observance compiled and written by Somdet Phra Buddhaghosacariya (Ñanavara Thera)
translated from the Thai by Bhikkhu Kantasilo

''The eighth precept does not permit the use of high or large beds. It is still not clear what is meant here. Perhaps even the one who is observing the precepts doesn't understand completely. What is meant by a large bed, and what are the measurements that make a large bed unallowable?

Beds and stools, made of boards, rattan or cloth, may have many curved or straight legs. The bed should not exceed 8 sugata inches (approximately 20 modern inches [3]) in height, measured from the base board down. Exceeding this height would make the bed unallowable. In the case of a square stool, even if the legs exceed 8 sugata inches it is still allowable. If a bed has a back and side boards, even if it is a little over the prescribed dimensions it is allowable. A bed or stool that has legs longer than the allowed measurements but which is fixed in place is allowable. A bed which does not have a head board may, by putting wood under the legs, be elevated up to but not exceeding 8 sugata inches. High beds and seats tend to lead to boastfulness and excitement. Thus the purpose behind not sitting or lying on high seats or beds is to avoid the possibility of such things leading to lust.

What are the characteristics of beds and stools?
The bed is long and is for reclining upon. The stool is for sitting on and is either round or four-sided.
How many arms-widths or forearms-lengths in size before a bed is too big for use?
The bed is not measured in this fashion. The term 'big' here refers to coverings and decorations that should not be used. The Atthakatha Acariyas have arranged a list of nineteen.
• A seat adorned with images of fierce animals such as tigers, crocodiles, etc.
• Pelts with long fur. (The hairs exceed four inches in length.)
• Spreads made of wool, which are intricately embroidered.
• Spreads made of wool, with intricate designs.
• Spreads made of wool, with pictures of flowers.
• Spreads made of wool, with intricate pictures of various animals.
• Spreads made of wool, with hair on both sides.
• Spreads made of wool, with hair on one side.
• Spreads made out of tiger skins.
• Red canopy furnishings.
• Elephant rugs.
• Horse rugs.
• Chariot rugs.
• Spreads woven of gold and silk and trimmed in gold.
• Spreads woven of silk and trimmed in gold.
• A woolen spread big enough for 16 dancers to dance on.
• Spreads made from civet pelts.
• Beds with red cushions at both ends.
• A mattress stuffed with nothing but kapok.

Another explanation of the term 'big' or 'large' bed here is that it refers to a bed big enough for two or more persons. Those who keep the Uposatha precepts stay away from beds such as these, which are meant for couples.

What mattresses (stuffings) are allowable?
• Mattresses stuffed with wool or feathers or with fur from bipeds or quadrupeds but not with human hair.
• Mattresses stuffed with cloth.
• Mattresses stuffed with bark.
• Mattresses stuffed with grass.
• Mattresses stuffed with leaves, except for the leaves of the Borneo camphor. The leaves of the Borneo camphor, if mixed with the leaves of other trees, are allowable.
Mattresses in the above list have been allowed by the Buddha.

According to the Sutta, it is not allowable to lie on a large or high bed. ..............

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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mikenz66
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:48 pm

Thanks Chris,

With those measurements it would actually be hard to find a bed that was "high".

:anjali:
Mike

PeterB
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Postby PeterB » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:18 pm

First thing in the morning I am going to scour our local shops for Borneo Camphor leaves.

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Pondera
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Postby Pondera » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:39 pm

alan wrote:Sorry to disappoint you once again, my dear monk. Maybe one of these days you will state an opinion, instead of gritting your teeth in vain disapproval.
Friends: the best bed is the one that allows you the most restful sleep, so that you can awaken refreshed and ready to study. Any other considerations about beds is, in my opinion, a total waste of time. This absurd preoccupation with rules is completely pointless. Don't lose sleep over it!


So, is it the bed that allows you to have a restful sleep? Or do you think it might be due to something else? Are you sure that your own "opinions" haven't been too persuaded by the commercial broadcasts of Sleep Country USA? Why buy a mattress any where else?

If you really believe that getting a good sleep can't occur without at least some kind of mattress then you've either completely bought in to all of the propaganda put forth by the mattress companies, or fail to realize what in life actually allows for a good nights sleep.

Not having a mattress is simply the epitome of not having any singular possession at all. It's not the fact that you sleep on the ground that makes you morally superior and enables you to have a good night's sleep. It's the fact that you have no possessions whatsoever to worry about, which makes you a morally superior person, -independent of the illusion that society casts over its inhabitants, i.e. that you need all of these useless things, when in fact you do not. The freedom from attachments allows you to sleep. That's why my grandma could sleep through a wind storm, in her arm chair. She was a very happy woman. Content. And free.

If people find that they're happy sleeping on a meager type of mattress, or none at all, who are you to blame or critisize them so out rightly, as if you had the answers to everything? Better off are you to understand what it is in their waking that makes sleeping on a bed of thorns so pleasant. It's the people who invest all of their hopes in the quality of their mattress who have the most problems sleeping. So too do their attachments follow them into the land of slumber.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=RDdLIZdKwSqW0&params=OALAAQE%253D&v=dLIZdKwSqW0

The past is written in red ink, founded on the earth, for the sake of transparency.

Darkness follows the past into the present.

"My back aches;
I will rest it."

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Pondera
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Re: Precepts: Not eating after mid-day / Avoiding lofty beds

Postby Pondera » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:50 pm

alan wrote:Not relevant.
Accept or reject what I'm saying based upon reason. If I told you I lived in a cave in India for 20 years, would it influence your judgement?


The only person who would be influenced by judgement if you had lived in an Indian cave for 20 years, would be you and your own judgement. The point is that experience leads to knowledge. And you cannot reason a priori without experience.

Your reasoning is inductive, based on premises not supported by experience. Your reasoning is theoretical. Your reasoning applies in theory, but not in practice.

The other type of reasoning is empirical by nature. It is reasoning based on experience. Hence it is knowledge.

Whether you have tried to sleep on a hard bed, or to eat only one meal a day before noon is entirely relevant to what you are actually justified in putting forth as opinions on the topic.

And if you told a person that you lived in a cave in India for 20 years you would simply be lying. You have essentially asked, "Does my lack of experience influence your opinion about what I say or think or hold to be true." Yes! Of course I would be influenced by that. Your lack of experience regarding the matter makes your assertions utterly groundless!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=RDdLIZdKwSqW0&params=OALAAQE%253D&v=dLIZdKwSqW0

The past is written in red ink, founded on the earth, for the sake of transparency.

Darkness follows the past into the present.

"My back aches;
I will rest it."

- the Buddha

Deminie
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Postby Deminie » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:30 pm

Studies of animals have led to several hypotheses concerning the cellular and molecular mechanisms whereby dietary restriction extends lifespan and protects against disease. The oxidative stress hypothesis proposes that aging and age-related diseases result from cumulative oxidative damage to proteins, lipids, and nucleic acids; by decreasing the amount of oxyradicals produced in mitochondria, dietary restriction retards aging and disease. A second hypothesis is that dietary restriction is beneficial primarily because of its effects on energy metabolism; that is, it increases insulin sensitivity. A third hypothesis, which may have a particular relation to the beneficial effects of reduced meal frequency/intermittent fasting, is that dietary restriction induces a mild cellular stress response in which cells up-regulate the expression of genes that enable them to cope with severe stress.
Last edited by Deminie on Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

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cooran
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Postby cooran » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:46 pm

Hello Terasi,

Hope this helps (at least regarding Bhikkhus):

Alms Food
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... .html#alms

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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ground
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Postby ground » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:16 am

I feel that eating has a strong impact on practice. What one eats, why one eats special sorts of food, when one eats, how much one eats, how often one eats ... very important.
Why is eating so important for practice? Because it is a "must" on an continuing basis to keep this body alive. E.g. in contrast to this sexual activity is just an option but no "must". And because eating is a "must", a recurring necessity and because the physical senses are directly involved it is so important and has a strong impact on practice IMO.


Kind regards

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manas
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Postby manas » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:36 am

TMingyur wrote:I feel that eating has a strong impact on practice. What one eats, why one eats special sorts of food, when one eats, how much one eats, how often one eats ... very important.
Why is eating so important for practice? Because it is a "must" on an continuing basis to keep this body alive. E.g. in contrast to this sexual activity is just an option but no "must". And because eating is a "must", a recurring necessity and because the physical senses are directly involved it is so important and has a strong impact on practice IMO.


Kind regards
Undertaking the Eight Precepts can stir up defilements from the murky depths, i've found; it helps throw them into light. I discover that at night, I'm not really hungry as such, but rather, I want the food for emotional comfort. If I take dark grape juice and some molasses, the unease goes away. I'm really beginning to question - (excepting those engaged in daily physical labour) - do we really need three meals a day? Is this not actually a burden on our system?

:anjali:
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

(SN 22.97)

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Paul Davy
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Postby Paul Davy » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:12 am

Greetings,

Having had "one meal a day" (with only a few exceptions) since Easter, I can say that it is very possible, very realistic, and I've never felt healthier.

It is interesting though walking around at lunchtime seeing people eating their swanky lunches...

Metta,
Retro, weighing 13kg less than he did at Easter :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"Whether I were to preach in brief, Sāriputta, or whether I were to preach in detail, Sāriputta, or whether I were to preach both in brief or in detail, Sāriputta, rare are those who understand." (A I 333, Sāriputtasutta)

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manas
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Postby manas » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:56 am

:candle:
Last edited by manas on Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

(SN 22.97)

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Paul Davy
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Postby Paul Davy » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:40 am

Greetings,

manasikara wrote:I'm wondering if just one meal a day leaves you weakened at all, though.

Generally not... and interestingly, even though I only eat at dinnertime, most days at 6pm I'm less hungry than I used to be if I'd eaten both breakfast and lunch.

manasikara wrote:Do you really only have one meal?

Yes, though there are also coffees.

:coffee:

manasikara wrote:May I ask, what line of work are you engaged in? I'm assuming it's not digging up roads etc...

The above smilie answers that question too... heheh.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"Whether I were to preach in brief, Sāriputta, or whether I were to preach in detail, Sāriputta, or whether I were to preach both in brief or in detail, Sāriputta, rare are those who understand." (A I 333, Sāriputtasutta)

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manas
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Postby manas » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:13 am

.
Last edited by manas on Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

(SN 22.97)

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Zom
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Postby Zom » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:05 pm

Just had my only meal, btw ,)

(practising that too for the last 4 months ,) Feeling good and more healthy as well.

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manas
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Postby manas » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:04 pm

:candle:
Last edited by manas on Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

(SN 22.97)

alan
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Postby alan » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:56 am

Nice to hear that you've lost weight, Retro. But did you lose fat, or muscle?
Muscle weighs a lot more than fat. And you don't want to lose muscle.
Best way to lose muscle is to sit around all day, and not eat.

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Paul Davy
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Postby Paul Davy » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:41 am

Greetings Alan,

alan wrote:Nice to hear that you've lost weight, Retro. But did you lose fat, or muscle?

Definitely fat, but muscle, I don't know... I've not benchmarked any of that, nor really am I overly concerned since I'm feeling fine and I do at least as much exercise (granted, still not much) as I did previously. Oh, and I've bowled a few 200+ games lately (and even bowled 9 games back-to-back last Sunday morning!) so I'm certainly not falling apart at the seams.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"Whether I were to preach in brief, Sāriputta, or whether I were to preach in detail, Sāriputta, or whether I were to preach both in brief or in detail, Sāriputta, rare are those who understand." (A I 333, Sāriputtasutta)

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Ben
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Postby Ben » Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:38 am

manasikara wrote:Ah, coffee...the noble bean, dispeller of torpor! The black drink that zaps light into tired neurons! Where would I be without it... ( --> :zzz: )

:anjali:


Less agitated!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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manas
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Postby manas » Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:56 am

.
Last edited by manas on Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

(SN 22.97)

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Zom
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Re: Why one meal a day?

Postby Zom » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:24 pm

I think that this is not too skilful to depend on some substances in meditation - like coffee or analgesics or whatever.

The right way to overcome sloth and torpor is to clean the mind with the help of Dhamma.
As I found out, when I'm slack in my practice, sloth and torpor overwhelms my mind. But if I keep on being mindful and meditate 1-2 hours a day - then I'm free of sloth and torpor all the time, every day, both in and out of meditation, and sometimes it is even difficult to fall asleep because of the aroused inner energy ,)


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