For someone new to Theravada where do you think is the best starting place in terms of the Pali cacon? All I know so far is the Dharmapada which I've ordered off the internet.
Also I assume that the Pali canon isn't meant to be Gospel like the Bible? Are you meant to believe and accept all that you read? I'm a natural born sceptic
Pali Canon
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Pali Canon
"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah
- retrofuturist
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Re: Pali Canon
Greetings,
The Pali Canon consists of three baskets (aka ti-pitaka).
There's the Sutta Pitaka which contains the Buddha's teachings (of which Dhammapada is a small part)
There's the Vinaya Pitaka which covers the monastic discipline, and finally...
There's the Abhidhamma Pitaka which covers psychological analysis of mindstates, and was ratified at the Third Buddhist Council.
The teachings are to be investigated, and if they seem reasonable, put into practice to see whether they are beneficial.
If/when they are seen to be beneficial, one is inclined to investigate and test them more deeply.
Whilst of course you can't validate the existence or truth of certain milestones before you get there, you can determine whether the application of these teachings (as best as you understand them and are capable and committed to following them) is bringing you happiness, calmness and a reduction in suffering.
If you like what you see in the Dhammapada, I would recommend further investigation of the Sutta Pitaka, either through books, or on sites like Access To Insight where suttas can be read for free.
If you wish to pursue meditation to complement your investigations, there are also many options available in that space too.
Metta,
Retro.
The Pali Canon consists of three baskets (aka ti-pitaka).
There's the Sutta Pitaka which contains the Buddha's teachings (of which Dhammapada is a small part)
There's the Vinaya Pitaka which covers the monastic discipline, and finally...
There's the Abhidhamma Pitaka which covers psychological analysis of mindstates, and was ratified at the Third Buddhist Council.
The teachings are to be investigated, and if they seem reasonable, put into practice to see whether they are beneficial.
If/when they are seen to be beneficial, one is inclined to investigate and test them more deeply.
Whilst of course you can't validate the existence or truth of certain milestones before you get there, you can determine whether the application of these teachings (as best as you understand them and are capable and committed to following them) is bringing you happiness, calmness and a reduction in suffering.
If you like what you see in the Dhammapada, I would recommend further investigation of the Sutta Pitaka, either through books, or on sites like Access To Insight where suttas can be read for free.
If you wish to pursue meditation to complement your investigations, there are also many options available in that space too.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Pali Canon
Thanks Retro. At the moment I'm in the process of finding the right Theravada tradition for me. I'm going to stay at a Thai Forest centre in a few weeks, though the nearest centre to me is a Sri Lanken one. I've heard that the Thai tradition doesn't concentrate on the pali cannon? Not sure about the Sri Lanken one though. Apologies for my ignorance
"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah
- retrofuturist
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Re: Pali Canon
Greetings,
Regardless of which sub-tradition appeals to you most, all follow the same path - namely the Noble Eightfold Path. They just have slightly different ways of going about it, and slightly different emphases.
Regardless, all of them accept the Sutta Pitaka as the Buddha's teaching - some might just focus more on meditation than study or vice versa, for example. Therefore I wouldn't regard them as being in any way incompatible for the very reason that they each take the Buddha's teachings as their anchor.
Metta,
Retro.
Regardless of which sub-tradition appeals to you most, all follow the same path - namely the Noble Eightfold Path. They just have slightly different ways of going about it, and slightly different emphases.
Regardless, all of them accept the Sutta Pitaka as the Buddha's teaching - some might just focus more on meditation than study or vice versa, for example. Therefore I wouldn't regard them as being in any way incompatible for the very reason that they each take the Buddha's teachings as their anchor.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Pali Canon
Hi greggorious,
The Vinaya pitaka deals with monastic rules, so that's probably not the best place to start with. An "advanced" lay Buddhist will probably benefit from it though, both for him/herself and to understand how to deal with monks/nuns.
The Abhidhamma is the "Advanced Dhamma" and is very technical, so it makes sense to start with the Sutta pitaka. You can start with the first book: the Digha Nikaya, which fairly accessible and (relatively) entertaining in some places.
The Tipitaka itself is about 11 times the size of the Bible, so that's a lot to go through!
In my opinion, it is not to be taken as perfect in any way. My personal opinion is that it is likely that some embellishements have been added, and possibly more. The Digha Nikaya in particular has a number of references to devas, special powers, etc. However, if you look closely, you will see that these are just embellishments; you can remove them and the substance of the text remains unchanged.
The Buddha encouraged followers to put his teachings to the test, in the same way miners would test samples of a vein to check if they indeed found gold or not. It it said that one quality of the Dhamma (the teachings the Buddha unveiled) is that it is "inviting investigation". Just blindly accepting the teachings as truth without investigation is probably not the right way to go.
Hope this help!
With metta
Just to build a bit on what retrofuturist posted.greggorious wrote:For someone new to Theravada where do you think is the best starting place in terms of the Pali cacon? All I know so far is the Dharmapada which I've ordered off the internet.
Also I assume that the Pali canon isn't meant to be Gospel like the Bible? Are you meant to believe and accept all that you read? I'm a natural born sceptic
The Vinaya pitaka deals with monastic rules, so that's probably not the best place to start with. An "advanced" lay Buddhist will probably benefit from it though, both for him/herself and to understand how to deal with monks/nuns.
The Abhidhamma is the "Advanced Dhamma" and is very technical, so it makes sense to start with the Sutta pitaka. You can start with the first book: the Digha Nikaya, which fairly accessible and (relatively) entertaining in some places.
The Tipitaka itself is about 11 times the size of the Bible, so that's a lot to go through!
In my opinion, it is not to be taken as perfect in any way. My personal opinion is that it is likely that some embellishements have been added, and possibly more. The Digha Nikaya in particular has a number of references to devas, special powers, etc. However, if you look closely, you will see that these are just embellishments; you can remove them and the substance of the text remains unchanged.
The Buddha encouraged followers to put his teachings to the test, in the same way miners would test samples of a vein to check if they indeed found gold or not. It it said that one quality of the Dhamma (the teachings the Buddha unveiled) is that it is "inviting investigation". Just blindly accepting the teachings as truth without investigation is probably not the right way to go.
Hope this help!
With metta
Re: Pali Canon
Here's a good place to start.greggorious wrote:For someone new to Theravada where do you think is the best starting place in terms of the Pali cacon? All I know so far is the Dharmapada which I've ordered off the internet.
Of course not. The teachings are pragmatic tools to be utilized, not blindly believed. The image the Buddha uses is that of a raft used to cross a river. Some may seem more fanciful than others; but the good news is that you can always take the aspects you find useful and just leave the rest aside.Also I assume that the Pali canon isn't meant to be Gospel like the Bible? Are you meant to believe and accept all that you read? I'm a natural born sceptic
"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" (AN 7.58).
leaves in the hand (Buddhist-related blog)
leaves in the forest (non-Buddhist related blog)
leaves in the hand (Buddhist-related blog)
leaves in the forest (non-Buddhist related blog)
Re: Pali Canon
accesstoinsight actually has a page devoted to just your question! http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... nding.htmlgreggorious wrote:For someone new to Theravada where do you think is the best starting place in terms of the Pali cacon? All I know so far is the Dharmapada which I've ordered off the internet.
Also I assume that the Pali canon isn't meant to be Gospel like the Bible? Are you meant to believe and accept all that you read? I'm a natural born sceptic
here are some other ideas from my personal experience:
if you have your heart set on picking up a complete volume from the canon i would say the majjhima nikaya. it has a lot of good teachings and is very in depth.
if you mean where to just jump in i would say the anapanasati sutta http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html (mindfulness of breathing), the maha satipatthana sutta http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html(overview of mindfulness techniques and a synopsis of the four noble truths and eightfold path), and the pancavaggi Sutta http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html(teaches about the not self characteristic) are good places to start.
if you want a compilation then there are two that are must haves: "the life of the buddha" translated by bhikkhu nanamoli (this presents the suttas that tell the story of the buddhas life in sequential order directly from the pali canon and has a great section on his teachings also directly from the canon) and "in the buddhas words" by bhikkhu bodhi (this is a compilation of important suttas with commentary by bhikkhu bodhi and others.
Re: Pali Canon
The best place is Digha Nikaya Part I. There you can find a full description of the Path (for example DN 2) that starts with faith and morality and culminates in final superknowledge. All steps of the path are explained in more details elsewhere in canon.For someone new to Theravada where do you think is the best starting place in terms of the Pali cacon? All I know so far is the Dharmapada which I've ordered off the internet.
But generally pali canon is a huge jig-saw puzzle - it will take many years to make it up
- Modus.Ponens
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Re: Pali Canon
The Buddha did teach about devas and psychic powers. It's an intelectualy dishonest position to think otherwise, having read a good amount of suttas. If you are a skeptic, that's fine, but this is the discovering Theravada section, and newcomers should hear the Theravada position, not the skeptic position.puppha wrote:Hi greggorious,
Just to build a bit on what retrofuturist posted.greggorious wrote:For someone new to Theravada where do you think is the best starting place in terms of the Pali cacon? All I know so far is the Dharmapada which I've ordered off the internet.
Also I assume that the Pali canon isn't meant to be Gospel like the Bible? Are you meant to believe and accept all that you read? I'm a natural born sceptic
The Vinaya pitaka deals with monastic rules, so that's probably not the best place to start with. An "advanced" lay Buddhist will probably benefit from it though, both for him/herself and to understand how to deal with monks/nuns.
The Abhidhamma is the "Advanced Dhamma" and is very technical, so it makes sense to start with the Sutta pitaka. You can start with the first book: the Digha Nikaya, which fairly accessible and (relatively) entertaining in some places.
The Tipitaka itself is about 11 times the size of the Bible, so that's a lot to go through!
In my opinion, it is not to be taken as perfect in any way. My personal opinion is that it is likely that some embellishements have been added, and possibly more. The Digha Nikaya in particular has a number of references to devas, special powers, etc. However, if you look closely, you will see that these are just embellishments; you can remove them and the substance of the text remains unchanged.
The Buddha encouraged followers to put his teachings to the test, in the same way miners would test samples of a vein to check if they indeed found gold or not. It it said that one quality of the Dhamma (the teachings the Buddha unveiled) is that it is "inviting investigation". Just blindly accepting the teachings as truth without investigation is probably not the right way to go.
Hope this help!
With metta
Buddhist skeptics have a need to spread that they do not believe this or that, I don't know why.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
Re: Pali Canon
The link below is for a site focused on developing a daily practice of reading the suttas with suggestions on texts to start with, overcoming hindrances to reading, etc.
http://readingfaithfully.org
If you are just beginning I would recommend starting to make a personal anthology as explained in this article.
http://readingfaithfully.org/37-2/
That way if you ever stop a daily reading practice you will still have those suttas close by that have touched you most deeply.
http://readingfaithfully.org
If you are just beginning I would recommend starting to make a personal anthology as explained in this article.
http://readingfaithfully.org/37-2/
That way if you ever stop a daily reading practice you will still have those suttas close by that have touched you most deeply.
| One sutta per day to your inbox | ReadingFaithfully.org Support for reading the Suttas | Citation lookup helper | Instant sutta name lookup | Instant PED lookup | Instant DPPN lookup |
Re: Pali Canon
I would start with "In the Buddhas Word" by Bhikkhu Bodhi.
http://www.wisdompubs.org/pages/display ... n=&image=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This has a great selection of Suttas that give a good overview of the Buddhas teachings to a variety of followers.
And the odd Deva... As Retro and Modus.Ponens say, you don't have to take everything literally, but everything is worth looking into.
Mike
http://www.wisdompubs.org/pages/display ... n=&image=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This has a great selection of Suttas that give a good overview of the Buddhas teachings to a variety of followers.
And the odd Deva... As Retro and Modus.Ponens say, you don't have to take everything literally, but everything is worth looking into.
Mike
Re: Pali Canon
Dear Modus.Ponens,
That's a very valid point, I ought to make some corrections.
I was actually more referring to parts of the text that can be safely removed without impact on the underlying message. For example, in the Digha Nikaya, in the first sutta if my memory is correct, the Buddha told a proud young brahmin that if he does not anwser a Buddha's question after the third time the question is asked, he will get is head split in 7! Then a yakkha appears, ready to execute the sentence! The young brahmin answers the question and the yakkha disappears. Another example later on in the Digha Nikaya is the case where the Buddha walks up and down in the air to attract the attention of somebody else.
It is indeed correct that the Buddha taught about devas and supernatural powers. My previous post might give the impression I think otherwise, which is not the case. I am sorry for the confusion, I'll be more careful next time.
With metta
Modus.Ponens wrote:The Buddha did teach about devas and psychic powers. It's an intelectualy dishonest position to think otherwise, having read a good amount of suttas. If you are a skeptic, that's fine, but this is the discovering Theravada section, and newcomers should hear the Theravada position, not the skeptic position.
Buddhist skeptics have a need to spread that they do not believe this or that, I don't know why.
That's a very valid point, I ought to make some corrections.
I was actually more referring to parts of the text that can be safely removed without impact on the underlying message. For example, in the Digha Nikaya, in the first sutta if my memory is correct, the Buddha told a proud young brahmin that if he does not anwser a Buddha's question after the third time the question is asked, he will get is head split in 7! Then a yakkha appears, ready to execute the sentence! The young brahmin answers the question and the yakkha disappears. Another example later on in the Digha Nikaya is the case where the Buddha walks up and down in the air to attract the attention of somebody else.
It is indeed correct that the Buddha taught about devas and supernatural powers. My previous post might give the impression I think otherwise, which is not the case. I am sorry for the confusion, I'll be more careful next time.
With metta
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Re: Pali Canon
Thank you for the clarification puppha.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
Re: Pali Canon
Moderator note:
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Many thanks,
Ben
Please read the following guidelines for the Discovering Theravada forum prior to responding to this thread:
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Many thanks,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..