Majjhima Nikaya in Brahmi script

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beeblebrox
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya in Brahmi script

Postby beeblebrox » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:40 pm

Kare wrote:Please convey my deep respects and heartfelt thanks for the good work he does!

Sure thing, Kare. I'll send him an email... I didn't even know he had this book.

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Life is too short for this. The Pali texts are available in Roman script (and most other scripts that you might know better). Learn to read and understand Pali rather than learning some obsolete script.

I agree. I don't think this would be an ideal way to start learning the Pāli. The Brahmi script seems to be hard on eyes, but who knows. If one is drawn to it, I see nothing wrong with it... as long as it's about the Dhamma.

:anjali:

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Re: Majjhima Nikaya in Brahmi script

Postby daverupa » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:42 pm

I wonder which Pali text(s) got translated into the script - I mean, if this author is doing their own work, comparing it to English translations might be very interesting as various languages offer various levels of nuance that other languages do not possess, or simply cannot convey. One wonders if such value obtains in this case.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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Re: Majjhima Nikaya in Brahmi script

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:05 pm

daverupa wrote:I wonder which Pali text(s) got translated into the script - I mean, if this author is doing their own work, comparing it to English translations might be very interesting as various languages offer various levels of nuance that other languages do not possess, or simply cannot convey. One wonders if such value obtains in this case.

Pali is a language, Brahmi is just a script. There's nothing to translate. It is just transliterated. One can read the same text in Burmese script or Devanagari script if one knows the script. There may be some point in learning Asian scripts to gain access to texts that are not available in Roman script, but Brahmi script is really only useful for archaeologists who want to read ancient inscriptions — not for studying the Dhamma, which is available in Pali in numerous modern scripts.
AIM WebsitePāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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daverupa
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya in Brahmi script

Postby daverupa » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:08 pm

That point will sometimes slip my mind - thank you for the reminder.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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Re: Majjhima Nikaya in Brahmi script

Postby vinodh » Sat May 28, 2011 5:24 am

I am sorry to say, that the Brahmi used is plain wrong in that text.

The Conjuncts are never even used !!

Sabbaasava Suttam is written as "Sababaasava sutatam" and so on !

The font which they had used "Imperial Brahmi" doesn't support Conjunct Brahmi. So it seems, they just conveniently skipped the Conjuncts, totally distorting the text !

While the effort is commendable, they should have at least done enough to create a font with supports Conjuncts, and then at attempted to print the text.

V
http://www.virtualvinodh.com

Buddhists Texts in Brahmi Script : http://www.virtualvinodh.com/brahmi-lipitva

yo dharmaṁ paśyati, sa buddhaṁ paśyati
One who sees the Dharma, sees the Buddha

na pudgalo na ca skandhā buddho jñānamanāsravam
sadāśāntiṁ vibhāvitvā gacchāmi śaraṇaṁ hyaham

Neither a person nor the aggregates, the Buddha, is knowledge free from [evil] outflows
Clearly perceiving [him] to be eternally serene, I go for refuge [in him]

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Kare
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Re: Majjhima Nikaya in Brahmi script

Postby Kare » Sat May 28, 2011 9:02 am

vinodh wrote:I am sorry to say, that the Brahmi used is plain wrong in that text.

The Conjuncts are never even used !!

Sabbaasava Suttam is written as "Sababaasava sutatam" and so on !

The font which they had used "Imperial Brahmi" doesn't support Conjunct Brahmi. So it seems, they just conveniently skipped the Conjuncts, totally distorting the text !

While the effort is commendable, they should have at least done enough to create a font with supports Conjuncts, and then at attempted to print the text.

V


Yes, that is one of the critical remarks that I have in mind, too.

Another is that there also are some printing errors. So you ought to know the text quite well in beforehand, in order to see through the printing errors and the conjunct problem.

Anyone can find a table explaining the characters in other books or on the internet. But as a service to the readers, such a table should have been included.

The effort is commendable, but do we really need the full Majjhima Nikaya? A smaller and less bulky volume - with ten suttas or so - would have been better.
Mettāya,
Kåre

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Re: Majjhima Nikaya in Brahmi script

Postby pulga » Sat May 28, 2011 1:06 pm

I ordered the publisher's editions of the four main Nikayas in Roman script, which is essentially the CSCD edition in bound and printed form. I get the impression that they run the Tipitaka through some sort of software program to present it in various scripts (Sinhala, Devanagari, Roman, Thai, Tamil, etc.). I imagine the same was done with the Brahmi.

Their Roman script editions are really quite handy. It's nice to have each of the Nikayas in single, inexpensive volumes.

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Re: Majjhima Nikaya in Brahmi script

Postby theravadin » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:58 am

Dear Dhamma friends,
Found this thread after all of you have long moved on ;-) - Thought I'd share this to answer some questions...
The Brahmi MN project was an idea I had a long time ago. It's print on demand - just for those really interested - and especially helpful if you want to become fluent in reading Brahmi characters (let's say you want to read Ashoka instructions in the original or study Indian epigraphy). The first edition of the book's script has some shortcomings, there is a newer one but not published yet. I spent quite some considerable amount of time tracing Brahmi ligatures in the linguistic literature and talking to some Indology friends. The old Brahmi inscriptions of Ashoka (based on which I designed the font) did not need/use many ligatures (some of which are highly irregular) - wherever Ashokas inscriptions provide ligatures I adopted them. It is actually quite interesting that most Prakrit dialects from Ashokan edicts appear less "Sanskritic" in their spelling than Pali (the inscription coming closest to Pali is found in Girnar but even that "avoids" double consonants quite a bit). Therefore, not having any historical examples and trying to avoid "creating" my own, I opted for a "middle path" ;-) and followed the (long standing) South-East Asian tradition in printing consonants "doubled". You can still find this in (older) Sinhalese Pali texts where they would print "dhamma" as dha+ma+ma. Someone familiar with the language will be able to make the right connections and identify the word correctly.
Lot's of metta & thanks for your interest!

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Re: Majjhima Nikaya in Brahmi script

Postby Ben » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:15 am

Dear Theravadin,
Many thanks for your wonderful efforts!
It is an inspiration.
I hope you will consider contributing regularly to our forum as I am sure many members will benefit from your knowledge.
kind regards

Ben
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in mountain clefts and chasms,
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but great rivers flow silently.

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sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

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