Depression

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PeterB
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Re: Depression

Post by PeterB »

I think it important both for understanding depression and in its treatment for the range of conditions that " depression " is shorthand for, to be as seen no different from other conditions in many ways.
If you have acne you go to a skin specialist.
If you have toothache you go to a dentist..unless you are as idiotic as me , I recently spent ten days in pain hoping it would go away on its own...it didnt.
If you are depressed for no obvious reason,( if you have recently been bereaved or made redundant from your job a degree of depression is within the range of normal responses..) then get checked out.
No biggie, no mystery..And I am not playing down at all the suffering caused by depressive conditions. it is great.
I am just saying that there are tried and trusted ways of managing the symptoms of depression, many not involving meds, although meds can be life savers at times, and sometimes ways of seeing its cause.
Although the latter is often not so important as might be assumed.
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altar
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Re: Depression

Post by altar »

Depression is low, dull, and heavy. It lends itself to misery and apathy and is not light.

Empathy is its counterpart, enthusiasm a counterforce. Thus company and friendliness dispel it. Intuition is like an elixir for it. Weariness with excitement a cause, worldliness a mainstay. Impermanence the knowledge that drives against it. Striving is the way to overcome it. Joy where it holds no footing. Energy an ally to those without it. Delight in its cessation is peaceful. Meditation is the cure, and nature the beyond (but is all around anyway).
It is karmic (mainly). Karma with dark results. And in the present is often like habitual malaise.

I wrote most of this a few days ago and I'm sorry that I keep posting and taking things down. This time it stays...
and i echo retro that contentment is the way of dhamma.
and cheerfulness should be somewhere in this post...
Last edited by altar on Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:11 am, edited 4 times in total.
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altar
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Re: Depression

Post by altar »

i wonder if we could start a thread on happiness...
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FaceaceRAWR
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Re: Depression

Post by FaceaceRAWR »

altar wrote:i wonder if we could start a thread on happiness...
I'd love that! I've also struggled with depression which is actually what brought me here in the first place.
And what I read about westerners [like me] devaluing themselves sounds very correct. I'd love to help myself, but if I do it without really trying... :thinking:

Anywho, there are a lot of extremely useful sites here and I wanted to say my thanks for them all. :clap:

Sincerely,
Ace :strawman:
PeterB
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Re: Depression

Post by PeterB »

" Low self esteem " is one component of some kinds of Depression. It is largely a symptom, not a cause. Albeit a symptom that needs addressing.
Much Depression does not conform to the common view of Depression at all. Often there is no noticeable change in affect and mood, rather it presents as a psychosomatic condition. As backache, as flu that never completely goes, as sleep disturbance, as digestive problems....etc.
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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Depression

Post by Spiny O'Norman »

PeterB wrote:Much Depression does not conform to the common view of Depression at all. Often there is no noticeable change in affect and mood, rather it presents as a psychosomatic condition. As backache, as flu that never completely goes, as sleep disturbance, as digestive problems....etc.
If there is no noticeable change in affect and mood, how do you know these psychosomatic conditions are related to depression?

Spiny
PeterB
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Re: Depression

Post by PeterB »

By cross referral to other symptoms which may or may not include a flattening of affect.
It is common for example for patients who are experiencing a number of symptoms to get no relief from the usual remedies that apply to that condition when it is largely physical in origin.

The reverse also applies. In my view antidepressants are to be used with caution, but fairly frequently an antidepressant with no known intrinsic painkilling qualities will "cure" long standing physical pain of uncertain origin.
Thus confirming a tentative diagnosis of depression.
Which can then be approached using alternatives to medication.
It is common for those experiencing various types of pain to be told that the cause may be Depression by a process of elimination, and to respond that they have never felt better.." apart from this pain that you doctors can't get to the bottom of "..
I am of necessity simplifying what is a subtle process.

We are complex and all of a piece.
Last edited by PeterB on Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Depression

Post by Spiny O'Norman »

PeterB wrote:By cross referral to other symptoms which may or may not include a flattening of affect.
It is common for example for patients who are experiencing a number of symptoms to get no relief from the usual remedies that apply to that condition when it is largely physical in origin.
The reverse also applies. In my view antidepressants are to be used with caution, but fairly frequently an antidepressant with no known intrinsic painkilling qualities will cure long standing physical pain of uncertain origin.

We are complex and all of a piece.

Thanks, this is interesting stuff.

Spiny
PeterB
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Re: Depression

Post by PeterB »

I added a bit.

:anjali:
fragrant herbs
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Re: Depression

Post by fragrant herbs »

I had depression for 12 years. I used positive affirmations to get rid of it and quit therapy. It worked the first day I tried it, and then I just kept it up. First I looked at my thoughts, and they were all negative, and then I took each thought and changed it into a positive affirmation and repeated it silently all day, and at the end of the day my depression had been lifted. After that I would not allow negative thoughts to enter my mind but would push them aside and replace them with positive. It means being mindful of what you think about. I have not suffered from depression since even though I can be upset over things, and this happened back in 1981. Dr. Burns has a book on it called, Mood Therapy, and his technique is different from how I did it. Also Daniel Golestein (?) has a book Destructive Emotions. I realized as what was written in a metaphysical book, "It is your thoughts that depress you and not the other way around." My therapist had been trying to tell me that because I was depressed I had negative thoughts. How stupid he was. And now they say it is chemical, but I believe that negative thoughts cause the brain chemistry to change, as does Dr. Burns, but he thinks it can go on so long that you can't reverse it. I don't believe that because I was severely depressed for all those years, as I said, 12.
befriend
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Re: Depression

Post by befriend »

if you are depressed because of low self esteem. i dont know if thats the reason. but if it is. buddhism will most likely end depression related to low self esteem. as i suffered from depression from low self worth for a few years, found buddhism and now im fine. i actually dropped out of college because i could not talk in front of a classroom of like 12 people. now i sing open mic nights, show others how to meditate in front of people, and public speaking is my main passion in life. thanks to buddhism. i hope you get well. karuna. befriend.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
fragrant herbs
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Re: Depression

Post by fragrant herbs »

Northernbuck wrote:Greggorious,
I was diagnosed with bipolar about 6 years ago, and not just the simple bipolar I or II, nope, I am Cyclothymia. This mean that I can mood change in the blink of an eye. I do not look at this as something that is a burden, or that I was cursed with. It is a decease, much like depression, or diabetes, or cancer, or leukemia. There is no difference between mental illness and physical illness. There are medications that help with physical illnesses and medication to help with metal illnesses. I do not believe that the Buddha would think that taking medicine to help with physical or mental pain is wrong. I am on Valproic Acid which helps to even out the waves of emotion that I tend to get. Meditation helps smooth the waves out even more. Remember that life is suffering and it does not matter if it is temporary or a lifetime of suffering. I have accepted that this is what I have to deal with and I accept it. The only advise I have is to continue to work with your physician on the medication and meditate. With metta

Brian
i had a therapist once who say that i was cyclothymic. i remember how i used to get high in people's company and couldn't control myself if a joke was made. one day i walked out of the room when this happened and sat by myself. that feeling went away; I had calmed down, and i realized then that i had control overmy moods. so i worked on controlling them and it worked

drugs never worked on me, no matter what they were so can say that the video that was given on here of a monk enjoying his walk up to the monastery, which I did not finish, would not have worked for me. when i was depressed nature meant nothing to me. everything was bleak. i had no joy in anything. in later years i had developed the cyclothymic condition and so had some joy, but most of the time it was terrible depression and anxiety attacks, which meant that my stomach felt like i had butterflies all the time.

to explain in more detail how i got over my depression. when i read that thoughts make you depressed, i began the first day with something that was depressing me even more. the man i loved chose another woman and came to tell me. what a bummer. then that day at work i kept saying quietly to myself, I am lucky.. I am lucky. like a mantra. meaning that i was lucky he didn't want me, and i had some reasons in the back of my head. at the end of the day i realized that i was lucky and my depression had gone away. then i sat and thought about what i was thinking, and most of the thoughts that always went through my mind were negative, so i took each one and spent a day on them. in a month i was cured. the anxiety attacks did not go away, but years later someone gave me some cold remedy tea, and while i was drinking it the attacks went away. by the time i finished the box i realized they were gone and they never returned. i looked at the ingredients in the box, and there were 5 of them, and i looked up what they did. chamomile tea is for spasms. i realized then that i must have been having spasms and that chamomile was the ingredient that cured me. i wish i had the name of the tea and have never been able to find it. i just know that a sweet sgi buddhist friend came over to chant with me when i was ill and brought the tea. (It was not the chanting that cured me, because I had to keep drinking the tea day after day when i felt anxiety attacks.)

Peter B: They told me that it was genetic too. I don't believe that now. I think it runs in families because, well, my own family taught us all to think negatively. It is a learned behavior, and i think that the book destructive emotions goes into this. this is the best book that has been written on the subject. it is by daniel goleman.

If i can do it anyone can. i was told that i was a tough case to crack and was in therapy for 12 years going to different therapists from time to time. once i was seeing three at the same time. I now have a low opinion of therapists and therapy, except for cognitive.
fragrant herbs
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Re: Depression

Post by fragrant herbs »

santa100 wrote:Yes, outdoor aerobic exercises would definitely help. Jogging, biking, hiking, or brisk walking are all good. If you've never done them before, make sure to start out slowly and gradually build up the speed and duration. Eventually if you could maintain 1hr-jogging 3 times a week, that'd be great. Good luck..
I don't mean to disagree with you, and I am not, I am disagreeing with this belief system that doctors made up. When I was depressed I walked for hours, all over Berkeley, CA during the hippie days. I lost a lot of weight, but it did nothing for my depression. I even ran much of the time. I went hiking in the hills. I was told to work, that it would help me. So I went to work at cleaning homes because I could not handle other types of work. I often found myself sitting on one of their beds trying to make myself get up and move. I tried volunteer work, and I was a senior volunteer for Suicide Prevention, which did not depress me anymore than i was, and i stayed for 4 years, but it didn't cure my depression either. I worked for the Red Cross. Didn't work. I think these cases where jogging, etc. are mentioned only work for mild depression.
befriend
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Re: Depression

Post by befriend »

great point. if you have like a ingrained belief that you are a worthless person, why would jogging cure depression.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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manas
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Re: Depression

Post by manas »

I struggle with depression on and off. This is going to sound odd, but sometimes the best way to stir myself up to action (my depression manifests as inertia, dullness, sadness etc) is to contemplate how tenous our lives are here. Not just any day but any moment, we could die: accident, illness, or violence... it happens. If we are lucky, we get to grow really old, and gradually fade away. But however we end up going, go we will. Sometimes I reflect on this body that I hold so dear, (imagining it) as lying dead on the floor...how sad, but it's going to happen one day, it is unavoidable...am I ready? How can I live my life today so as to be prepared to die with a calm and unconfused mind, when that day comes?

Practice, practice, practice!

:namaste:

:heart:
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
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