Attention parents

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Attention parents

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:16 pm

Hi all,

My daughter is doing really icky, spoiled behaviors. The tantrums she throws when she doesn't get her way include scratching me, hitting me, biting, and just general ugly stuff. She is a special needs kid but I'm not going to let her grow into one of those icky spoiled adults just because she has learning delays.

I'm just doing time-outs. I have the patience to do time-out all day long, and I'm not going to strike her or cause her harm physically. No matter my frustration I can't do that. But what else can I do? Please, all advice welcomed. Behavior modification advice needed! She's three years old and mentally about two.

Thanks so much,
Ngawang Drolma
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Re: Attention parents

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:46 pm

If your daughter has special needs, then you need special help, not just general good advice from parents. Do you have a support group or access to professional help in your area? Have you perhaps tried that route already and found it unhelpful?
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Re: Attention parents

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:48 pm

Bhante, after three years I never thought of this. Thank you so much, I will find resources in my area for me, not just her.

Many thanks :bow:
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Re: Attention parents

Postby Aloka » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:13 pm

Hi Drolma,

I don't know how the system works over there but Bhikku Pesala definately gave you good advice. Seek professional advice and peer support for strategies and ways forward.
In the meantime perhaps just ignoring the bad behaviour and rewarding the good might be a possibility. Sometimes small children expect a certain response to attention seeking behaviors and when parents react in a particular way it can re- enforce those patterns.
Just a thought anyway.

Thinking about you and wishing you and your little one well.

Kind wishes,

Dazzle
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Re: Attention parents

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:26 pm

Thanks Dazz! :anjali:

Yes, I believe it's very true that ignoring is preferable to punishing when at all possible. Bad behaviors in kids can fall off if ignored long enough. I place stock in good old Skinner and his box.

I don't judge parents to spank a their children, but the reason I'm very hands-off is because hitting this sweet little girl would be like hitting a baby bird or something. You'd understand if you met her :smile:

At any rate, regular parenting skills supplemented with supports from parents who are going through this or are past this is the new direction I plan to take.

Best,
ND
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Re: Attention parents

Postby Aloka » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:00 pm

Oh goodness me yes, ND,

The idea of of parents hitting their children horrifies me totally!

All the best with your efforts,

Dazz :heart:
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Re: Attention parents

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:06 pm

I don't know if it has any relationship with your daughter's condition, but this Horizon Documentary is worth watching anyway. It is about a woman with Autism.
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Re: Attention parents

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:40 pm

I don't know all the details of your situation and you have great advice above, but as a parent I can tell you that there is reason why they call 2 - 3 year olds, the "terrible twos."

They are wild, rambunctious, loud, demanding, etc.

My only advice would be to get some time off whenever you can. For example, if she spends some time with her father, grandparents, baby-sitter (someone related or who you know well), etc. Take care! :hug:
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Re: Attention parents

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:53 pm

Greetings Drolma,

What works for one kid, may not work for the next... just as it is with adults. Even the "terrible twos" which TheDhamma mentioned aren't a universal phenomenon.

Further to Bhikkhu Pesala's good advice, keep trying to learn and understand what makes your daughter tick. Remember that she is a little person with her own tendencies towards greed, aversion and delusion. When you've got her 'wavelength', more solutions to certain situations will become apparent.

Metta,
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If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


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One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Attention parents

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:40 am

Wow, great advice from all, thanks a lot.

Autism has been totally ruled out. I pressed and pressed to be sure about this, and the professionals say no. She's just moving along slower than other kids. The behaviors are frequently what The Dhamma described, and it's challenging because I'm small and she's getting awfully tall! So tantrums, demanding behaviors, etc. are so very tiring. It would be easier if we could verbally communicate at this point and if she could express her needs and understand me, but her speech is severely delayed.

In those moments of feeling overwhelmed, I imagine that reminding myself that she is a little person with her own set of dukkha will probably help a lot. That always evokes a sense of patience and compassion in me with adults, so I'll start doing it with the little one more often. It's not that I don't have compassion for her, because she is frustrated too. But I need to frame it around regular human dukkha more often.

She starts special school on Monday and I have hopes about what the increased social activity will do for her. When she was in day care for a spell she got closer to catching up by mimicking other kids.

Really, thanks all :namaste:
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Re: Attention parents

Postby Rui Sousa » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:28 pm

My son is two and half years old, I have a bite mark on my right arm to prove it, yesterday he cried for 30 minutes because he wanted something to be somewhere (I don't recall what it was...), and my wife gets really desperate when he repeats the word "mom" 10.000 times in two minutes :tongue:

The terrible two are what they are :cry: :rolleye: ... though times for any parent.

I find that he gets very frustrated when he doesn't get our attention, and becomes violent, throwing things around, kicking the dogs, biting us, etc. The only thing that calms him down his getting our attention. So simple to solve, so many worldly obstacles on the way... Like cooking dinner or changing his dippers . At these ages there is no communication with the little ones, if I tell my son that I am very sleepy and I need to rest he replies "Play!! Cars!! Now!!" while jumping around, If I tell him not to play with the knifes, he starts running, holding the knifes, and challenging me to catch him.

When anger arises in my mind I yell at him, when he insists on putting a fork on the electrical plug I slap his hands. But when he gets very frustrated and starts crying and hitting things, humour is my best friend. When he cries I cry, when he lays on the floor kicking the air, I do the same and ask him if I am doing it right, or I aks him if he is done with it. He usually starts laughing and stops the wild behaviour.

Some diseases make the parental task even more difficult, in those cases I believe Bhikkhu Pesala's advice is extremely important. Don't try to carry too much weight on your shoulders. A close friend of mine has a child with Angelman syndrome, and support to the parent his needed very often.
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Re: Attention parents

Postby thornbush » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:41 pm

When he cries I cry, when he lays on the floor kicking the air, I do the same and ask him if I am doing it right, or I aks him if he is done with it.
He usually starts laughing and stops the wild behaviour.

ImageI salute all who have the guts to be someone's parents...hence my voluntary bachelorhood :tongue:
A :toast: to my parents who had to swallow it all :rolleye:
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Re: Attention parents

Postby Rui Sousa » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:15 pm

Ngawang Drolma wrote:She starts special school on Monday and I have hopes about what the increased social activity will do for her. When she was in day care for a spell she got closer to catching up by mimicking other kids.


From what I have witnessed social interaction with children of the same age really boosts development.

I wish you and your child the best :heart: :hug:
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Re: Attention parents

Postby David N. Snyder » Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:16 pm

Rui Sousa wrote:
When he cries I cry, when he lays on the floor kicking the air, I do the same and ask him if I am doing it right, or I aks him if he is done with it. He usually starts laughing and stops the wild behaviour.

:clap:

I love this idea! It is a "subtle discipline" and more of a play and bonding with your son; excellent!
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Re: Attention parents

Postby Jechbi » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:48 pm

Hi Ngawang Drolma,

A couple more thoughts that might or might not be helpful:

What I've noticed is that one day I wake up and I realize that incoherent 3-year-old is gone now. He's a completely different person, maybe 6 now or 15 or whatever age. These difficult moments of child-rearing are temorary flashes in time, and in a year or two from now, you're going to look back and think, wow, I wish things were still that simple. Especially when she's a teenager.

Another thing I've noticed is that when that raging 3-year-old is kicking and hitting and biting, I think it's amazing that this bundle of energy was a helpless baby just a few short months ago. He would just lie there, and we'd dream about what he'd look like when he's older, when would he take his first step, would he grow healthy and strong. Now here he is in front of me, and listen to those lungs! He's so strong! That's just great.

When I have a 3-year-old who screams and cries and throws a tantrum, sometimes in the middle of it I smile and think about how great it is that he's made it this far, and look at him, he's got the energy to just keep on going.

And when that child is 21 or 22, a proper young man or woman visiting you, a real friend, then all those tantrums are something you both can laugh about. Trust me, that time will come.

In the difficult moments of raising a child, we come face-to-face with our heart of compassion. In the middle of the next tantrum, if you can notice some of these things, it might help.

fwiw
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Re: Attention parents

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:01 pm

I am so appreciative of all these comments, I really am :smile:

I'll note too that while the tantrums are very challenging, it is age-appropriate. I welcome all things that are age-appropriate with her, and I'd be worried if she were just sitting in a corner rather than making my hair go gray. It seems though like it's one big tantrum with an occasional break, rather than an occasional tantrum. Is that how other parents felt?

Best,
Drolma :namaste:
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Re: Attention parents

Postby Rui Sousa » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:53 pm

Ngawang Drolma wrote:It seems though like it's one big tantrum with an occasional break, rather than an occasional tantrum. Is that how other parents felt?


Relationships are not linear and clear, there is always a complex dynamic underlying what happens between two beings. Since each being has its own Kamma that becomes visible in what is called behaviour (a synonym of "by action of body, speech and mind"?).

My son tends to do one big tantrum from the moment he sees us on the afternoon, when we pick him up from school, until he goes to bed; with occasional quiet moments. He acts a bit better when he is alone with me, a little worse when alone with my wife, must worse when we are all together.

In my analysis he has a lot going on his mind but still lacks the ability to phrase it, so he becomes frustrated because he can't communicate properly. Since he is using verbs, since a few months ago, I sense him to be less frustrated about it. But now he starts to get angry about "not getting what he wants", like eating grapes instead of soup, or drinking milk from the bottle instead of drinking it from a cup.

Crying and making a drama is the only means he has to make me take the milk from a cup into a bottle, because he still can't articulate his thoughts and negotiate with us, but he has a very strong desire to get what he wants. Grapes vs. Soup can be a two hours drama... :rolleye:
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Re: Attention parents

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:20 pm

My son didn't speak for the longest time; everyone thought there was something wrong with him. The one day he began speaking in whole sentences. He was waiting until he understood how to do it correctly I suppose. There's a term for kids who do this but I can't remember it. Point is some kids aren't necessarily behind, just on their own time.

J
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Re: Attention parents

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:45 pm

Greetings,

Ngawang Drolma wrote:It seems though like it's one big tantrum with an occasional break, rather than an occasional tantrum. Is that how other parents felt?

My son never really did that. For the most part he's always been pretty placid, but can still have a "junior moment" every now and then, bursting into tears and whinging.

On an unrelated note, here's a copy of his recent kindergarten homework: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3Cs6nnWpg90/S ... ennett.jpg

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Attention parents

Postby cooran » Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:12 pm

Hello all,

One of the most effective, evidenced based group and individual programs is taught by the Triple P. I've seen great progress with a wide range of parents and children.

Triple P "small changes, big difference"
http://www17.triplep.net/?pid=50
Triple P for parents
http://www10.triplep.net/?pid=58


metta
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