Wrong speech on this forum

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Training of Sila, the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).

Wrong speech on this forum

Postby Sacha G » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:55 pm

Hello friends
Just a short post to say that, though I appreciate this forum very much, I'm a bit disappointed by the way some here write to others. Indeed, some speak with harsh words, wanting to be right at all cost, and being sarcastic. I saw also some complaining that they didn't dare to ask questions anymore, because they were automatically attacked by others. Isn't it sad?
I think it's also a reason why some women here don't want to post messages. Happily a majority seems to continue with speaking gently and listening to others.
Well, that was just a thought of mine.
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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:18 pm

Sacha G wrote:I think it's also a reason why some women here don't want to post messages. Happily a majority seems to continue with speaking gently and listening to others.
Do all women always speak gently and listen to others? All men do not? I am guessing the best you can do here, or the best any of us can do, is to follow the dictum attributed to Gandhi of being the you want to see in the world.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby Sacha G » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:01 pm

Well: I admit my text had a double meaning. "A majority" was "a majority of the participants", i.e mainly male.
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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby PeterB » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:04 pm

Oh goody...a nice meta discussion. We havent had one of those for weeks.
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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby appicchato » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:54 pm

A perfect example, eh Sacha G?...
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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby Dan74 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:08 pm

I guess I kind of approach these fora as well as the posters here in a similar ways to bargain bins. There is lots of trash but an occasional treasure! Don't let the trash distract you. We also don't know the intention and the manner in which the posts are written (no body language or intonation to accompany them) so it is best not to infer negative intent wherever possible and try not to pigeon-hole posters into roles. Otherwise a treasure may be missed just because it is wrapped in an old oily rag!

The other thing I found useful is to concentrate on my reactions. This is good practice and far more useful than shaking my fist at an anonymous "rude" poster across the interwebs. :D
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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:23 pm

I just figure if I want to be able to choose who I hang out with I go out in public. Then I can walk away from annoying people--which the older I get becomes a larger and larger subset of the population it seems. The problem with Internet fora is when you allow everyone in, that's exactly what you get, and you either have to put up with everyone or leave the forum. There used to not even be an Internet; I wonder what people did then? Oh yeah: they had hobbies. :toast:

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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby befriend » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:29 pm

i have a question i may be wrong. did buddha refer to some people as fools. did he say in a sutta, he who does evil will suffer in this lifetime and feel shame, and when he dies the fool will go to hell. is this correct?
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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby cooran » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:39 am

Hello befriend,

All of these Suttas refer to ‘’fools’’:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/search_r ... =fool#1218

with metta
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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:02 am

cooran wrote:Hello befriend,

All of these Suttas refer to ‘’fools’’:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/search_r ... =fool#1218

with metta
Chris

...but remember that doesn't mean the Buddha often said to anyone, 'You are a fool,' let alone, 'How on earth did you come to such a stupid conclusion? You must have been born with half a brain and then forgotten to use it!' or anything remotely like it. That kind of speech is not Right Speech by any measure. It is also very poor, unproductive teaching style, and the Buddha's teaching technique (quite apart from the content of his teaching) was brilliant. (As a teacher myself, I tend to notice tricks of the trade. I bow to his skill. :bow: )
Without even clicking on Cooran's link, I'm willing to bet that you will find teachings like, 'The man who does X is a fool, but you wouldn't do that yourself, would you?' or, 'This is what happens to the fool in his next life.' That is, the 'fool' is someone else, and usually someone not even present, not the student.

Getting back to the OP:
I also have been saddened and/or irritated by the rudeness of some people here. Daily life is an opportunity to practice Right Speech, as we should know. DW should be an opportunity to enjoy it and see its benefits as well as practice it.

:namaste:
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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:15 am

Greetings,

When reading people's posts...

If you assume the worst, you'll find all manner of distasteful things in people's posts.

If you assume the best, you'll find much of value and interest.

I'm inclined to believe that people wouldn't come to a Buddhist forum, if they didn't have a genuine interest in spiritual cultivation... and if someone does have a genuine interest in spiritual cultivation, then I'm sure there's a lot we can learn from each other.

If people's posts are a violation of the Terms Of Service, please report them using the Report Post function. (see Terms of Service for more details).

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby PeterB » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:20 am

Just a gentle reminder of section 2 of the Terms Of Service, particularly the reference to " meta discussion..."

:anjali:
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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:39 am

Greetings Peter,

PeterB wrote:Just a gentle reminder of section 2 of the Terms Of Service, particularly the reference to " meta discussion..."

In most topics, discussion of such nature is meta-discussion, hence, people shouldn't do it elsewhere.

When however, discussion of this nature is the topic itself, then it's on topic.

How long such a topic remains open for though remains to be seen... it depends if anything positive comes of it.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby Zom » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:12 am

[3] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing & disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:24 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
When reading people's posts...

If you assume the worst, you'll find all manner of distasteful things in people's posts.
If you assume the best, you'll find much of value and interest.

Absolutely true, and a continual risk - or trap - in online discussions is reading posts in the wrong tone of voice. Jokes and sarcasm are often hard to identify as such (please use lots of smilies, folks) but it is also very easy to read a plain statement of fact or opinion as an attack, e.g. "I like apples," may become, in the reader's mind, "I like apples and anyone who doesn't is just plain stoopid :guns: " although in the writer's mind it was, "I like apples and I know you like oranges but isn't it wonderful that we all like different things :group: "

I guess we need to be willing to use as many words as we need to make ourselves clear, and to make sure we don't make unfair assumptions.

:namaste:
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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby PeterB » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:29 am

Another way to access the debate linked to in the TOS.
Second topic, then "read more "

http://www.fitz-claridge.com/?9=search.
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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby Vepacitta » Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:24 am

I rarely post here anymore and when I do, it's usually to push back at bullies.

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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:43 am

Vepacitta wrote:I rarely post here anymore
Which is too bad. You made positive contributions here.

and when I do, it's usually to push back at bullies.
The forum is what people make it. There a lot of different personalities here, both difficult and easy to get along with.

Image
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby Fede » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:28 am

I've been away a good long while, for many and varied reasons.
But I've found for me, the best and most effective way to guard myself against wrong speech, is to put down everything I feel is worthy in response - then edit and delete the better and major part of it.
Keeps it short, sweet to the point and largely inoffensive.

Good morning, everyone.

:hug: :namaste:
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Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

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Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Re: Wrong speech on this forum

Postby Ben » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:35 am

Hi Alex,
Its not only good but damned refreshing to see someone take responsibility for their experience here.
kind regards,

Ben
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