Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

A forum for members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of the Pali Canon and associated Commentaries, which for discussion purposes are both treated as authoritative.

Moderator: Mahavihara moderator

Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Postby danieLion » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:57 am

This is probably a basic question. Using the Satipatthana Sutta as an example, why do some authors usually just cite it as just MN 10 (e.g., Thanissaro) while other authors cite it just as M I 55-63 (e.g., Analayo), and yet others cite it as both (e.g., Bodhi)? It makes following and comparing references frustrating! Anyone know any heuristics for this, preferably non-digital and/or off-line?

On a related topic: I'm going to start purchasing Sutta Collections books, e.g., I'm looking at Bodhi's Majjhima Nikaya translation to start. How's that sit with the experts? Does the same go for his Anguttara Nikaya and Digha Nikayha translations?

Thanks.
Daniel
danieLion
 
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:11 am

danieLion wrote:This is probably a basic question. Using the Satipatthana Sutta as an example, why do some authors usually just cite it as just MN 10 (e.g., Thanissaro) while other authors cite it just as M I 55-63 (e.g., Analayo), and yet others cite it as both (e.g., Bodhi)? It makes following and comparing references frustrating! Anyone know any heuristics for this, preferably non-digital and/or off-line?

On a related topic: I'm going to start purchasing Sutta Collections books, e.g., I'm looking at Bodhi's Majjhima Nikaya translation to start. How's that sit with the experts? Does the same go for his Anguttara Nikaya and Digha Nikayha translations?

Thanks.
Daniel
His translation are well regarded. The Digha was translated by Maurice Walshe.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 18355
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Turtle Island

Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:15 am

danieLion wrote:This is probably a basic question. Using the Satipatthana Sutta as an example, why do some authors usually just cite it as just MN 10 (e.g., Thanissaro) while other authors cite it just as M I 55-63 (e.g., Analayo), and yet others cite it as both (e.g., Bodhi)? It makes following and comparing references frustrating! Anyone know any heuristics for this, preferably non-digital and/or off-line?

MN 10 is the sutta number.
M I 55-63 is pages 55-63 of volume I of the Pali (not translated) version from the Pali Text Society (PTS). This allows for a more specific reference in a long sutta than just the Sutta number.
Sutta Central: http://www.suttacentral.net is useful for searching. You can put in either style.

Note that there are some differences in reference numbers for the SN suttas between the translations on Access to Insight http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/index.html Metta Net http://awake.kiev.ua/dhamma/tipitaka/ and Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation. But the PTS page references should be the same...

danieLion wrote:On a related topic: I'm going to start purchasing Sutta Collections books, e.g., I'm looking at Bodhi's Majjhima Nikaya translation to start. How's that sit with the experts? Does the same go for his Anguttara Nikaya and Digha Nikayha translations?

After "In the Buddha's Words" I read the Nanamoli-Bodhi MN. There are many on-line talks on that Nikaya, from both Bhikkhu Bodhi, the Monks and Nuns at BSWA, and many others.
The Wisdom DN translation is by Maurice Walsh. Their SN, and upcoming AN are by BB.
http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/c_teachings.lasso
I think they are the best available in English, with extensive notes and cross-references. In fact, they are the only complete modern translations, since the alternative PTS translations (which these supersede) are getting rather old (the BB translations are co-published with PTS).

:anjali:
Mike
User avatar
mikenz66
 
Posts: 9612
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:58 am

Greetings,

Indeed, an online translation conversion number table would be handy.

Like one that converts Centigrade to Fahrenheit, or metric measures to imperial ones.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14521
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:25 am

retrofuturist wrote:Indeed, an online translation conversion number table would be handy.

http://www.suttacentral.net/ does translate from e.g. MN i 1 to MN 1.

:anjali:
Mike
User avatar
mikenz66
 
Posts: 9612
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:50 am

Greetings Mike,

I just tried entering MN i 1 and it didn't bring back anything... maybe I'm not doing it right. Can you explain how to use the site in such a way as to return the corresponding alternative sutta reference codes?

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14521
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Postby danieLion » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:10 am

You guys are awesome. Thanks.
Daniel :heart:
danieLion
 
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:39 am

retrofuturist wrote:I just tried entering MN i 1 and it didn't bring back anything... maybe I'm not doing it right. Can you explain how to use the site in such a way as to return the corresponding alternative sutta reference codes?

Enter MN i 1 and select: Volume/Page reference
Whereas if you enter MN 1 you select: Abbreviation and number

:anjali:
Mike
User avatar
mikenz66
 
Posts: 9612
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:43 am

Greetings Mike,

Ah yes, thanks... selecting "Abbreviation and number" did the trick.

I think I might have a bit of a play with this... :ugeek:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14521
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Return to Classical Theravāda

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests