Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

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danieLion
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Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Postby danieLion » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:57 am

This is probably a basic question. Using the Satipatthana Sutta as an example, why do some authors usually just cite it as just MN 10 (e.g., Thanissaro) while other authors cite it just as M I 55-63 (e.g., Analayo), and yet others cite it as both (e.g., Bodhi)? It makes following and comparing references frustrating! Anyone know any heuristics for this, preferably non-digital and/or off-line?

On a related topic: I'm going to start purchasing Sutta Collections books, e.g., I'm looking at Bodhi's Majjhima Nikaya translation to start. How's that sit with the experts? Does the same go for his Anguttara Nikaya and Digha Nikayha translations?

Thanks.
Daniel

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Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:11 am

danieLion wrote:This is probably a basic question. Using the Satipatthana Sutta as an example, why do some authors usually just cite it as just MN 10 (e.g., Thanissaro) while other authors cite it just as M I 55-63 (e.g., Analayo), and yet others cite it as both (e.g., Bodhi)? It makes following and comparing references frustrating! Anyone know any heuristics for this, preferably non-digital and/or off-line?

On a related topic: I'm going to start purchasing Sutta Collections books, e.g., I'm looking at Bodhi's Majjhima Nikaya translation to start. How's that sit with the experts? Does the same go for his Anguttara Nikaya and Digha Nikayha translations?

Thanks.
Daniel
His translation are well regarded. The Digha was translated by Maurice Walshe.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam
Damned if I know.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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mikenz66
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Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:15 am

danieLion wrote:This is probably a basic question. Using the Satipatthana Sutta as an example, why do some authors usually just cite it as just MN 10 (e.g., Thanissaro) while other authors cite it just as M I 55-63 (e.g., Analayo), and yet others cite it as both (e.g., Bodhi)? It makes following and comparing references frustrating! Anyone know any heuristics for this, preferably non-digital and/or off-line?

MN 10 is the sutta number.
M I 55-63 is pages 55-63 of volume I of the Pali (not translated) version from the Pali Text Society (PTS). This allows for a more specific reference in a long sutta than just the Sutta number.
Sutta Central: http://www.suttacentral.net is useful for searching. You can put in either style.

Note that there are some differences in reference numbers for the SN suttas between the translations on Access to Insight http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/index.html Metta Net http://awake.kiev.ua/dhamma/tipitaka/ and Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation. But the PTS page references should be the same...

danieLion wrote:On a related topic: I'm going to start purchasing Sutta Collections books, e.g., I'm looking at Bodhi's Majjhima Nikaya translation to start. How's that sit with the experts? Does the same go for his Anguttara Nikaya and Digha Nikayha translations?

After "In the Buddha's Words" I read the Nanamoli-Bodhi MN. There are many on-line talks on that Nikaya, from both Bhikkhu Bodhi, the Monks and Nuns at BSWA, and many others.
The Wisdom DN translation is by Maurice Walsh. Their SN, and upcoming AN are by BB.
http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/c_teachings.lasso
I think they are the best available in English, with extensive notes and cross-references. In fact, they are the only complete modern translations, since the alternative PTS translations (which these supersede) are getting rather old (the BB translations are co-published with PTS).

:anjali:
Mike

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retrofuturist
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Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:58 am

Greetings,

Indeed, an online translation conversion number table would be handy.

Like one that converts Centigrade to Fahrenheit, or metric measures to imperial ones.

Metta,
Retro. :)
Through corruption of the Dhamma comes corruption of the discipline, and from corruption of the discipline comes corruption of the Dhamma. This is the first future danger as yet unarisen that will arise in the future. You should recognize it and make an effort to prevent it. (AN 5.79)

"If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good." - Thomas J. Watson

Never again...

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mikenz66
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Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:25 am

retrofuturist wrote:Indeed, an online translation conversion number table would be handy.

http://www.suttacentral.net/ does translate from e.g. MN i 1 to MN 1.

:anjali:
Mike

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retrofuturist
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Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:50 am

Greetings Mike,

I just tried entering MN i 1 and it didn't bring back anything... maybe I'm not doing it right. Can you explain how to use the site in such a way as to return the corresponding alternative sutta reference codes?

Metta,
Retro. :)
Through corruption of the Dhamma comes corruption of the discipline, and from corruption of the discipline comes corruption of the Dhamma. This is the first future danger as yet unarisen that will arise in the future. You should recognize it and make an effort to prevent it. (AN 5.79)

"If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good." - Thomas J. Watson

Never again...

danieLion
Posts: 1947
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Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Postby danieLion » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:10 am

You guys are awesome. Thanks.
Daniel :heart:

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mikenz66
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Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:39 am

retrofuturist wrote:I just tried entering MN i 1 and it didn't bring back anything... maybe I'm not doing it right. Can you explain how to use the site in such a way as to return the corresponding alternative sutta reference codes?

Enter MN i 1 and select: Volume/Page reference
Whereas if you enter MN 1 you select: Abbreviation and number

:anjali:
Mike

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retrofuturist
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Re: Sutta Citation Styles Differences Driving Me Nuts!

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:43 am

Greetings Mike,

Ah yes, thanks... selecting "Abbreviation and number" did the trick.

I think I might have a bit of a play with this... :ugeek:

Metta,
Retro. :)
Through corruption of the Dhamma comes corruption of the discipline, and from corruption of the discipline comes corruption of the Dhamma. This is the first future danger as yet unarisen that will arise in the future. You should recognize it and make an effort to prevent it. (AN 5.79)

"If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good." - Thomas J. Watson

Never again...


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