Ajahn Sumedho on Meditation

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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appicchato
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Re: Ajahn Sumedho on Meditation

Post by appicchato »

pink_trike wrote:This remark reveals his apparent ignorance re: the view, practice, and experience of psychotherapy and it's potential.
We're all ignorant, one way, or another... :pig:
floating_abu
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Re: Ajahn Sumedho on Meditation

Post by floating_abu »

rowyourboat wrote:hi has anyone heard Ajhan sumedo talking of disenchantment, dispassion and cessation (ie that path of insight)?
Yes
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Re: Ajahn Sumedho on Meditation

Post by floating_abu »

pink_trike wrote:
gavesako wrote:Dhamma teachings of Ajahn Sumedho
Speaking about psychotherapeutic meetings: It's like we take these heavy burdens onto our shoulders, and then we come together and tell each other about how we feel, carrying this weight on our backs! It tends to reinforce the basic delusion that "I am somebody who has a problem, and I have to do this and that in order to solve it." It does not cut off the problem at its root.
This remark reveals his apparent ignorance re: the view, practice, and experience of psychotherapy and it's potential.
My own interpretation of Luang Por's teaching here is the core problem of personality/atta -- and it is in this context that he presents it.

I think to jump to the conclusion that he is ignorant about psychotherapy is a far one to make, and certainly the context of his teachings is about transcendence.

i.e. Psychotherapy whilst valuable works within the self, whilst Buddhist practice teachings (as opposed to general teachings) point to transcendence of the self.

And thus I think his comments are best seen and referred to in context.

Best wishes.
floating_abu
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Re: Ajahn Sumedho on Meditation

Post by floating_abu »

pink_trike wrote:Just because the experience of psychotherapy is notably, blessedly free of dogma doesn't mean that there isn't Dharma at work there. It's a good idea not to judge a path by it's form - as more than one of my teachers have said as they supported, taught, and encouraged me in relationship to my professional practice as a psychotherapist.
No problems with psychotherapy and I have also seen teachers refer to this process. So much respect.
pink_trike wrote:But if by "root" either he (or you) mean some magical understanding that arises out of a state of religiosity, then I can't comment further.
Luang Por points to the obvious, the immediacy of suffering and awareness. To call it "magical understanding" is to overplay and overstate the objection to his earlier comment.

The "root" that Luang Por teaches about is merely that of atta, and thereby anatta.

Only by observation - direct and intimate/personal, can this be known for oneself.

:namaste:
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Re: Ajahn Sumedho on Meditation

Post by floating_abu »

Chris wrote:Hello rowyourboat, all,
ryb said: hi has anyone heard Ajhan sumedo talking of disenchantment, dispassion and cessation (ie that path of insight)?
Aren't people (including famous bhikkhus) who speak about their own personal experiences going against the MN 122 Maha-suññata Sutta The Greater Discourse on Emptiness recommendation that Dhamma should be taught without reference to self or others? (reference http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )

I recall Ven. Dhammanando writing on another list (ws) that "the criticisms of the forest ajahns' presentation of the Dhamma by means of autohagiography tend to be more specific than merely "not seeming proper".

The forest ajahns are for the most part addressing audiences who have not "for a long time listened to the teachings, retained them, discussed them, accumulated them, examined them with their minds, and penetrated them well in terms of their views." Since this is the only reason the Buddha gives Ānanda as to why it is improper for a disciple to go to a teacher to hear discourses, catechisms etc., clearly the advice of the Mahāsuññatasutta only applies to certain disciples — those who already have an adequate pariyatti basis. It does not apply in the case of neophyte disciples
."

metta
Chris
Interesting that for one who has tasted the genuine fruit of teachings how they then use conventional language to point and direct is no longer such a big issue - although those still stuck at the literal level are oft wary and suspicious implicitly or explicitly. I have seen this a lot. No fundamental problem but something to note perhaps and for the suspicious mind, little will appease and that is just the nature and function of that mind. Ajahn Sumedho is a fine teacher, I have found, with credibility as the basis ie direct knowledge of the Buddha's teachings - but that he is not for everyone is not a problem really. What is valuable for us is already there for those who have an affinity, and he has done a good job by us all already, regardless of what we are able to do with it or not. All Tathagatas in all realms can only point after all, the work is ours to complete. :namaste:
rowyourboat
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Re: Ajahn Sumedho on Meditation

Post by rowyourboat »

Thank you for the replies to me questions- especially the quotes by Bikkhu Gavesako helped a lot- this is valuable to me- I did wonder if what is openly taught is what is deemed appropriate for his general audience - my question was not meant to cause any offence :anjali:
with metta
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
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Guy
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Re: Ajahn Sumedho on Meditation

Post by Guy »

gavesako wrote:Dhamma teachings of Ajahn Sumedho
The five khandhas are all about death.



Mindfulness is the way out of insanity.
(Amaravati winter retreat 1999)
If consciousness is one of the five khandhas and is therefore all about death, what is the difference between consciousness and mindfulness? Isn't mindfulness only possible because of consciousness? I know that consciousness doesn't require mindfulness, but mindfulness always requires consciousness, right? or not?

When I hear things like "trust in awareness" I am not sure I understand what that is pointing to exactly.
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm
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retrofuturist
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Re: Ajahn Sumedho on Meditation

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Guy,
Guy wrote:If consciousness is one of the five khandhas and is therefore all about death, what is the difference between consciousness and mindfulness?
The khandas are death, because they are conditioned, thus are impermanent, not-self and dukkha. Mindfulness is conditioned too. However, mindfulness is a tool that can help lead to the unconditioned, which is not all about death. Hence perhaps the analogy of the Dhamma as a raft.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Guy
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Re: Ajahn Sumedho on Meditation

Post by Guy »

Ah, thanks Retro, that clears things up a bit for me.
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm
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jcsuperstar
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Re: Ajahn Sumedho on Meditation

Post by jcsuperstar »

while the scholar monk vs meditation monk quote is cool and all, when dealing with matters of meditation i would trust the meditation monk over the scholar monk just as i would trust a surgeon over medical text book editor to perform my surgery
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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cooran
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Re: Ajahn Sumedho on Meditation

Post by cooran »

Hello jcsuperstar,

And how do you think the surgeon graduated, became qualified and was employed in a hospital to practice and instruct others, without rigorous study on which to base his practical skills?

Similarly with Bhikkhus.

metta
Chris
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adosa
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Re: Ajahn Sumedho on Meditation

Post by adosa »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Guy,
Guy wrote:If consciousness is one of the five khandhas and is therefore all about death, what is the difference between consciousness and mindfulness?
The khandas are death, because they are conditioned, thus are impermanent, not-self and dukkha. Mindfulness is conditioned too. However, mindfulness is a tool that can help lead to the unconditioned, which is not all about death. Hence perhaps the analogy of the Dhamma as a raft.

Metta,
Retro. :)
Hi Retro

Plus, clinging to the khandas is death as doing so leads to re-birth, aging, sickness, and death.

Ron
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183
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jcsuperstar
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Re: Ajahn Sumedho on Meditation

Post by jcsuperstar »

Chris wrote:Hello jcsuperstar,

And how do you think the surgeon graduated, became qualified and was employed in a hospital to practice and instruct others, without rigorous study on which to base his practical skills?

Similarly with Bhikkhus.

metta
Chris
we dont need no book learnin!! :guns:

in my case i learned under a monk, i didnt really start reading about it till way after. and i suspect this is the case with most of those rag robed monks, you sit and you practice and your teacher either says youre on the right track or youre an idiot. and when the suttas were purely oral this was probably more so then now
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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