masturbation what's wrong?

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ground
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by ground »

a monk reflects on this very body from the soles of the feet on up, from the crown of the head on down, surrounded by skin and full of various kinds of unclean things: 'In this body there are head hairs, body hairs, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, tendons, bones, bone marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, pleura, spleen, lungs, large intestines, small intestines, gorge, feces, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, skin-oil, saliva, mucus, fluid in the joints, urine.'

"In this way he remains focused internally on the body in & of itself, or focused externally... unsustained by anything in the world. This is how a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself.
...
"Furthermore, as if he were to see a corpse cast away in a charnel ground — one day, two days, three days dead — bloated, livid, & festering, he applies it to this very body, 'This body, too: Such is its nature, such is its future, such its unavoidable fate'...

"Or again, as if he were to see a corpse cast away in a charnel ground, picked at by crows, vultures, & hawks, by dogs, hyenas, & various other creatures... a skeleton smeared with flesh & blood, connected with tendons... a fleshless skeleton smeared with blood, connected with tendons... a skeleton without flesh or blood, connected with tendons... bones detached from their tendons, scattered in all directions — here a hand bone, there a foot bone, here a shin bone, there a thigh bone, here a hip bone, there a back bone, here a rib, there a breast bone, here a shoulder bone, there a neck bone, here a jaw bone, there a tooth, here a skull... the bones whitened, somewhat like the color of shells... piled up, more than a year old... decomposed into a powder: He applies it to this very body, 'This body, too: Such is its nature, such is its future, such its unavoidable fate.'

"In this way he remains focused internally on the body in & of itself, or externally on the body in & of itself, or both internally & externally on the body in & of itself. Or he remains focused on the phenomenon of origination with regard to the body, on the phenomenon of passing away with regard to the body, or on the phenomenon of origination & passing away with regard to the body. Or his mindfulness that 'There is a body' is maintained to the extent of knowledge & remembrance. And he remains independent, unsustained by (not clinging to) anything in the world. This is how a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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chownah
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by chownah »

Some people overindulge in sex because they have nothing really in life that they enjoy....except sex.....perhaps doing some introversion and trying to find out what activities (other than sex) are fun and perhaps doing some planning to try to introduce some of them into your schedule could help......think about the stereotype (which is often too close to the truth) of some who just works, sleeps, has sex, and watching tv while drinking beer.....this is just a stereotype but illlustrates the lack of interesting activities in a someones life.
chownah
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Alex123
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by Alex123 »

Lazy_eye wrote: For things like pornography or "erotic massage parlors", it may be helpful to contemplate the lives of the people involved (i.e. who are providing the services). Think about them as real people -- be aware that they are somebody's child or sibling, and not just a paid pleasure-machine. How would you feel if it was your sister or daughter or mother? You may find that when you keep this in mind, the thrill disappears from these kinds of activities.
When it comes to women, they are paid well, easy money, and get to show off their beautiful (in a worldly delusional sense) body. I think that when someone criticizes porn stars, s/he is simply jealous of other's proportions, beauty, pleasure, easy money, etc.
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by Lazy_eye »

Alex123 wrote:
Lazy_eye wrote: For things like pornography or "erotic massage parlors", it may be helpful to contemplate the lives of the people involved (i.e. who are providing the services). Think about them as real people -- be aware that they are somebody's child or sibling, and not just a paid pleasure-machine. How would you feel if it was your sister or daughter or mother? You may find that when you keep this in mind, the thrill disappears from these kinds of activities.
When it comes to women, they are paid well, easy money, and get to show off their beautiful (in a worldly delusional sense) body. I think that when someone criticizes porn stars, s/he is simply jealous of other's proportions, beauty, pleasure, easy money, etc.
If it's a fully consensual, non-exploitative situation I wouldn't have a problem with it. From what I've read, though, a fairly high percentage of women in the porn industry have been abused. And if your porn content is coming from the former USSR, Eastern Europe or Asia you're very likely dealing with some pretty shady stuff, i.e. human trafficking and "white slavery".
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by ground »

Nicro wrote:
Jhana4 wrote:Have you tried masturbation? It is cheap, clean, quick and free of hurt feelings.
You can regulate how much you indulge while you learn to step down.
Easiest and most obvious answer.
That is bad advice because it just feeds the recurrence of lust.

_____________

In addition to the contemplations recommened above you may try to refrain from spicy food, avoid meat completely and be very moderate in eating. Interime fasting may be supportive / uposatha style (i.e. not eating after noon).


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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by Jhana4 »

TMingyur wrote:
Nicro wrote:
Jhana4 wrote:Have you tried masturbation? It is cheap, clean, quick and free of hurt feelings.
You can regulate how much you indulge while you learn to step down.
Easiest and most obvious answer.
That is bad advice because it just feeds the recurrence of lust.
I disagree. In 15 min of his time, he gets mind off of sex and freed from thoughts of massage parlors.

The alternative methods offered by Theravada are to either cultivate disgust or disenchantment for sex. That works for monks and nuns. That doesn't work well for a lay person who hopes to have a relationship someday.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by ground »

Jhana4 wrote:Have you tried masturbation? It is cheap, clean, quick and free of hurt feelings.
You can regulate how much you indulge while you learn to step down.
Nicro wrote: Easiest and most obvious answer.
TMingyur wrote: That is bad advice because it just feeds the recurrence of lust.
Jhana4 wrote: I disagree. In 15 min of his time, he gets mind off of sex and freed from thoughts of massage parlors.
until the same dukkha occurs again. C'mon feeding any sensual desire just perpetuates it.
Jhana4 wrote: The alternative methods offered by Theravada are to either cultivate disgust or disenchantment for sex. That works for monks and nuns. That doesn't work well for a lay person who hopes to have a relationship someday.
Of course does it work for lay persons.
If there is fear of losing interest in sexual relationships then that is an instance of dukkha (fear) supporting dukkha (lust).

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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by Jhana4 »

TMingyur wrote:
Jhana4 wrote: I disagree. In 15 min of his time, he gets mind off of sex and freed from thoughts of massage parlors.
until the same dukkha occurs again. C'mon feeding any sensual desire just perpetuates it.
No it does not. Satisfying a craving and then leaving it alone is not the same as stoking a desire into an attachment.
TMingyur wrote:
Jhana4 wrote: The alternative methods offered by Theravada are to either cultivate disgust or disenchantment for sex. That works for monks and nuns. That doesn't work well for a lay person who hopes to have a relationship someday.
Of course does it work for lay persons.
If there is fear of losing interest in sexual relationships then that is an instance of dukkha (fear) supporting dukkha (lust).
Kind regards
Most relationships will not last ( or start ) if one partner has cultivated a disgust or a detachment for sex. The original poster hopes to have a relationship with the right person someday.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by David2 »

Jhana4 wrote: No it does not. Satisfying a craving and then leaving it alone is not the same stoking a desire into an attachment.
You satisfy the craving once and it comes back and you satisfy it again... and it keeps coming back.

Or you don't satisfy the craving... it will get temporarily very strong... and then it will suddenly collapse and vanish after some time (of course only if you don't even satisfy the craving a single time).

That is the way dependent origination works.
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by Jhana4 »

If that was completely true there wouldn't be any arahants, as even they crave food and water if they do without either long enough.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
David2
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by David2 »

Jhana4 wrote:If that was completely true there wouldn't be any arahants, as even they crave food and water if they do without either long enough.
There's one difference between sexual craving and the craving for food and water.
You need food and water to survive. It is necessary to satisfy those cravings regularly to not die.
You don't need sex to survive.

Edit: On the other hand, I don't think arahants have any cravings.
I don't think an arahant craves for food if he is starving. There would be a feeling of extreme hunger, but he is an arahant, so no craving develops.
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Mr Man
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by Mr Man »

No big production number just say no. You'd be surprised by how well it works. ;)
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by befriend »

ive heard from a monk that you CANT DO THE FOULNESS OF THE BODY MEDITATION WITHOUT A TEACHER, OR YOU CAN BECOME SUICIDAL. it is a very intense bhavana.
why do you want to get rid of your lust, are you addicted to porn or something. maybe contemplating that all pleasure and pain come and then they pass, this helps sooth the passions. eat less food, because when your comfortable you get aroused easier.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by Jhana4 »

A jog and a cold shower works too.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Dan74
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by Dan74 »

At 25 most men have pretty high libido (lust) and thoughts about women (or men if so inclined) are bound to surface up fairly frequently.

Building concentration and an on-going breath awareness is very beneficial in this regard, I found, and when lustful thoughts come, to let them come and let them go while maintaining equanimity rather than beating yourself over it. It takes time and practice and I am no master but it does help reduce and then eliminate a habit of fantasizing and dwelling on lustful thoughts.

As others have noted, a healthy lifestyle including sport, good food (not too spicy, not too much garlic and onion if possible) also help. I find it important to recall the Buddha's suggestion to cultivate wholesome habits and avoid unwholesome ones. To be committed to practice and wholesome compassionate work rather than self-indulgence and pleasure-seeking.

It's ongoing work and it takes patience and a gentle approach. In the meantime I opt for flower porn rather than the other kind:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1034308304 ... 8/Flowers#

There is a way to be sensual and enjoy the beauty of the world and the pleasure of the physical form without recourse to sex. This too is probably to be let gone of in due course, but I find it OK at this stage in my practice.
_/|\_
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