masturbation what's wrong?

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Jhana4
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby Jhana4 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:55 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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ground
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby ground » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:48 pm


Jhana4
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby Jhana4 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:39 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

David2
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby David2 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:57 pm


Jhana4
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby Jhana4 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:08 pm

If that was completely true there wouldn't be any arahants, as even they crave food and water if they do without either long enough.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

David2
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby David2 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:12 pm


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Mr Man
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby Mr Man » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:32 pm

No big production number just say no. You'd be surprised by how well it works. ;)

befriend
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby befriend » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:30 pm

ive heard from a monk that you CANT DO THE FOULNESS OF THE BODY MEDITATION WITHOUT A TEACHER, OR YOU CAN BECOME SUICIDAL. it is a very intense bhavana.
why do you want to get rid of your lust, are you addicted to porn or something. maybe contemplating that all pleasure and pain come and then they pass, this helps sooth the passions. eat less food, because when your comfortable you get aroused easier.
nothing can destroy a man who has lived a pure life

Jhana4
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby Jhana4 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:19 am

A jog and a cold shower works too.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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Dan74
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby Dan74 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:05 am

At 25 most men have pretty high libido (lust) and thoughts about women (or men if so inclined) are bound to surface up fairly frequently.

Building concentration and an on-going breath awareness is very beneficial in this regard, I found, and when lustful thoughts come, to let them come and let them go while maintaining equanimity rather than beating yourself over it. It takes time and practice and I am no master but it does help reduce and then eliminate a habit of fantasizing and dwelling on lustful thoughts.

As others have noted, a healthy lifestyle including sport, good food (not too spicy, not too much garlic and onion if possible) also help. I find it important to recall the Buddha's suggestion to cultivate wholesome habits and avoid unwholesome ones. To be committed to practice and wholesome compassionate work rather than self-indulgence and pleasure-seeking.

It's ongoing work and it takes patience and a gentle approach. In the meantime I opt for flower porn rather than the other kind:



There is a way to be sensual and enjoy the beauty of the world and the pleasure of the physical form without recourse to sex. This too is probably to be let gone of in due course, but I find it OK at this stage in my practice.
_/|\_

santa100
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby santa100 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:47 am

Exercises are great way to use your energy in an efficient and beneficial way. Outdoor cardios are very beneficial. I'd recommend either jogging or biking. If you've never done it, make sure to start out slowly (~5 - 10 minutes) and gradually build it up to 1 hr - 1 and a half. Try to do it 3 days/week. For the other 3 days, try 1 hr weight-lifting or other kind of strength training. So after work, you'll either hit the gym or on the road running, by the time you get home to make dinner, you won't have much time and energy left for anything else but you still feel really good though..

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ground
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby ground » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:25 am

Last edited by ground on Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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mikenz66
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:40 am


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Ben
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby Ben » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:29 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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ground
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby ground » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:06 am


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Ben
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby Ben » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:23 am

Greetings Ming,

Thanks for your explanation. I appreciate it.
Leaving aside those people who have no neural link and ejaculate without sensation, and ariyas, I stand by what I said earlier.
If anyone thinks that they can masturbate without craving, then my personal opinion is that I believe they are mistaken.
Anywy, I think we might be drifting into the off-topic...
:focus:
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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ground
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby ground » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:37 am


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Ben
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby Ben » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:43 am

Thanks again Ming for your clarification.
And for the record, jhana4 is a male.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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manas
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby manas » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:03 am

Hi rb3
well I'm glad there is someone who understands what it was like for me, when I was your age. (I'm sorry it had to be you, of course!) but joking aside...assuming that you are not planning to become a monk in the near future, I just can't see why you don't do what most single blokes do if they live alone, with no girlfriend, when the urge becomes intolerable - give 'madame palm and her five lovely handmaidens' a call. No charge, no expense, no worries. :tongue:

I'm joking about it because you really don't have a serious problem. You are just what is called a 'normal 25 year old man'. Lust is stronger when we are young, and very, very gradually tends to ease a bit with age and experience.

I look at it this way: do what causes the least harm, given the current situation. For some it would be, date and meet more women and get a girlfriend. For some, masturbate as much as is needed to not go and do something worse (like abandon a promise to oneself by visiting to a massage parlour...) For some (like myself) it is currently, trying to let go of masturbation (but not feeling too much guilt about it if it happens). And yes, for some the meditation on the loathsomness of the body is appropriate, accompanied by strict celibacy (not easy to maintain as a layperson...I've tried it). Whichever one you pick, choose one that is realistic, and that won't drive you nuts. Minimize harm...we might not be able to eliminate, but we can minimize...

By the way, our mindfulness doesn't have to go out the window (should we decide to) do self-pleasuring. We can always maintain a measure of sati-sampajanna, even during that particular act...I won't go into details as this is a Buddhist forum, but know the vedanas as they arise and pass away...witness your own craving, and see how it also changes over the session...even doing something that isn't strictly speaking very wholesome, we can still learn something, I've found.

:namaste:
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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Ben
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Postby Ben » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:21 am

Masturbation as meditation.
Now I think I have seen it all...
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..


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