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Lineage of monks - Dhamma Wheel

Lineage of monks

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
chownah
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Lineage of monks

Postby chownah » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:49 am

Did the Buddha teach that only he could initiate a lineage of monks?
chownah

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tiltbillings
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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:56 am


chownah
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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby chownah » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:37 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:43 am


chownah
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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby chownah » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:07 am

Actually the point is "Did the Buddha teach that only he could initiate a lineage of monks?"
But I am interested in knowing what is the significance of the term Vinaya as applied to a lineage or to monks or nuns...do you have a reference for that?

But everyone....please does anyone know "Did the Buddha teach that only he could initiate a lineage of monks?"

chownah

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tiltbillings
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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:17 am


Bankei
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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby Bankei » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:52 am

Lineage is Vamsa in Pali. I think any one taking an ordination would have a lineage. It is like a family tree. With Buddhist monks they would all have a common ancestor which would be the Buddha.

There are of course other lineages of monks such as Jaina and other Sramanera groups. They would be valid by their own criteria though.

So it is a bit of a strange question. I don't think the Buddha taught anyware that only he could initiate a lineage of monks.

Bankei
-----------------------
Bankei

chownah
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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby chownah » Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:52 am

Well, so far no one has brought a reference where the Buddha teaches that only he can start a lineage of monks. It was my impression that he did not teach that and since no one has produced a reference I am even more firm in my belief that he did not teach that. If anyone has a reference indicating that the Buddha did teach this then please post it here.

Also, Is there any Pali reference anywhere stating by anyone that only the Buddha can start a lineage of monks?
chownah

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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby Gena1480 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:12 am

looks like Venerable Ajaan Mun
started a lineage

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:54 am

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

chownah
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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby chownah » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:18 am

Bhikkhu Pesala,
Thanks for your response...I guess you are saying some things that you think are important but really they do not address my question. I know that you do not understand why I am asking this question but I want to tell you that I have no dilemma and really think that you must be making assumptions about me and it seems that your assumptions are inaccurate in that I have no dilemma; I'm just asking a question. So far no one has offered a Pali reference that addresses my question....and I guess you are not able to produce a Pali reference as well....if you can produce a Pali reference which indicates that only the Buddha can start a lineage I ask you to please bring it here so I can read about it.....with each post that get's added to this thread I am becoming more certain that in fact there is no Pali reference which indicates that only the Buddha can start a lineage....I'm not wanting to argue about this....I just want to find if such a reference exists and whether the Buddha taught that only he can start a lineage.
chownah

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tiltbillings
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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:30 am


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appicchato
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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby appicchato » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:56 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:58 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:02 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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tiltbillings
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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:56 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:01 am

Greetings,

There are different Buddhist lineages in existence today... surely the Buddha did not personally instigate them all?

In which case the answer to Chownah's question would (once more) seem like a "no".

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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tiltbillings
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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:17 am


chownah
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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby chownah » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:09 pm


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daverupa
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Re: Lineage of monks

Postby daverupa » Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:19 pm



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