Dry vipassana?

Discussion of Satipatthana bhavanā and Vipassana bhavana.

Dry vipassana?

Postby danieLion » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:53 am

What exactly is dry vipassana?
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Re: Dry vipassana?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:02 am

Greetings,

danieLion wrote:What exactly is dry vipassana?

Satipatthana without jhana.

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: Dry vipassana?

Postby Mr Man » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:14 am

Another unnecessary label.
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Re: Dry vipassana?

Postby danieLion » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:17 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

danieLion wrote:What exactly is dry vipassana?

Satipatthana without jhana.

Metta,
Retro. :)

Does it work? I mean, do those who do it claim it works? Are there practitioners here?

Is this covered in the jhana threads?
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Re: Dry vipassana?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:31 am

Greetings danieLion,

danieLion wrote:Does it work? I mean, do those who do it claim it works?

Well, you get a fair assurance from the Buddha at the end of the Satipatthana Sutta and there's nothing there that says that it is necessarily practiced under the influence of jhana.

danieLion wrote:Are there practitioners here?

Yes.

danieLion wrote:Is this covered in the jhana threads?

It's sort of covered in any topics that talk about the so-called "vipassana jhanas".

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Dry vipassana?

Postby Ben » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:08 am

Well, actually, dry vipassana usually refers to those people who develop vipassana in the complete absence of samatha. The (Abhidhammika) students of Sujin Boriharnwanaket may consider themselves suddha vipassana yanika (One who's vehicle is insight only), but I don't think they are the only ones.
The different strands of the Burmese Vipassana sub-traditions, to my knowledge, use both samatha and vipassana at different points.
Does it work? To be honest, I don't know Daniel. I do have great confidence in the efficacy of my own tradition and I think life's too short to jump ship.
kind regards,

Ben
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Re: Dry vipassana?

Postby ground » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:06 pm

There has always first to be a learning which applies the knowledge of conventional words and terminology and which leads to understanding based on conventional words and terminology (initial conceptual learning). This holds true whether it is the practice of vipassana or the practice of samatha that one wants to learn and there is always analysis involved.
Then the learned has to be applied to experience (actual practice). This application again implies analysis.

To some extent concentration & calmness have to be the basis for both, the initial conceptual learning and the actual practice.

So I wonder what "dry" in the expression "dry vipassana" is referring to ... Maybe the expression is a fabrication caused by scholary/intellectual confusion?


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Re: Dry vipassana?

Postby JackV » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:52 pm

Ben wrote: I do have great confidence in the efficacy of my own tradition and I think life's too short to jump ship.
kind regards,

Ben


Hi Ben.

Could I enquire as to what this tradition is?
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Re: Dry vipassana?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:07 pm

Is Jhāna Necessary? is an article about "Dry Insight."

Venerable Ledi Sayādaw also explains how to proceed directly to insight before attaining full absorption in his Manual of Respiration (Ānāpāna Dīpanī).

Venerable Henapola Gunaratana describes it in The Jhanas in Theravada Buddhist Meditation

Venerable Sayādaw U Pandita describes The Vipassanā Jhānas, the focusing of the mind on paramattha dhammas. Usually these are spoken of as “ultimate realities,” but actually they are just the things we can experience directly through the six sense doors without conceptualization.
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Re: Dry vipassana?

Postby Ben » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:04 pm

Hi Jack,
JackV wrote:
Ben wrote: I do have great confidence in the efficacy of my own tradition and I think life's too short to jump ship.
kind regards,

Ben


Hi Ben.

Could I enquire as to what this tradition is?


SN Goenka:
www.dhamma.org
www.vri.dhamma.org
kind regards,

Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Hereclitus


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Re: Dry vipassana?

Postby danieLion » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:08 pm

Ben wrote:Well, actually, dry vipassana usually refers to those people who develop vipassana in the complete absence of samatha. The (Abhidhammika) students of Sujin Boriharnwanaket may consider themselves suddha vipassana yanika (One who's vehicle is insight only), but I don't think they are the only ones.
The different strands of the Burmese Vipassana sub-traditions, to my knowledge, use both samatha and vipassana at different points.
Does it work? To be honest, I don't know Daniel. I do have great confidence in the efficacy of my own tradition and I think life's too short to jump ship.
kind regards,

Ben

Interesting. The person who recently told me they do "dry vipassana" loves Abhidhamma--is ALL about Abhidhamma.
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