Greetings,
Buddhism seemed to travel happily in an Eastern direction across the Asian continent... I'm just wondering what forces stopped it making much progress in the westerly direction too?
I recall seeing that there was once some kind of Buddhist presence in Pakistan and Greece, but what exactly happened? What stopped the Dhamma's westward march?
Metta,
Retro.
(The failure to) Go West
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(The failure to) Go West
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: (The failure to) Go West
Hi Paul,
Hmmm...good question...
I just went here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Se ... lla-search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Just starting to snoop around a little though, and not much...yet...
Hmmm...good question...
I just went here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Se ... lla-search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Just starting to snoop around a little though, and not much...yet...
Re: (The failure to) Go West
Hi Retro,
You may find interesting the page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeut%C3%A6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Metta, Dmytro
You may find interesting the page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeut%C3%A6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Metta, Dmytro
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Re: (The failure to) Go West
A post from Genkaku that he could not get to stick...
Retro.
Metta,I don't know the historical answer, but the first thing into my head was that it did make it (via the Silk Route?) to Afghanistan where the Taliban, in later times, blew up the statues at Bamiyan. And the spread to Afghanistan was more than cosmetic if I judge from a friend of mine who said she was once doing zazen behind a large Buddha statue in Afghanistan when someone passed by and dropped a few coins in her lap.
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: (The failure to) Go West
Fascinating!!Dmytro wrote:Hi Retro,
You may find interesting the page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeut%C3%A6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
excerpts:
Therapeutae
The Therapeutae (male, pl.) and Therapeutrides (female, pl.), according to the account in De vita contemplativa by the Jewish philosopher Philo of Alexandria (c. 20 BCE - 50 CE) who appears to have been personally acquainted with them, were "philosophers" (cf. I.2) that lived on a low hill by the Lake Mareotis close to Alexandria in circumstances resembling lavrite life (cf. III.22), and were "the best" of a kind given to "perfect goodness" that "exists in many places in the inhabited world" (cf. III.21). Philo derives the name Therapeutae/Therapeutides from Greek θεραπεύω in the sense of "cure" or "worship" (cf. I.2), whilst Pseudo-Dionysius favours the meaning "servants".
According to Philo, the Therapeutae were widely distributed in the Ancient world, among the Greeks and beyond in the non-Greek world of the "Barbarians", with one of ther major gathering point being in Alexandria, in the area of the Lake Mareotis. They lived chastely with utter simplicity; they "first of all laid down temperance as a sort of foundation for the soul to rest upon, proceed to build up other virtues on this foundation" (Philo). They were dedicated to the contemplative life, and their activities for six days of the week consisted of ascetic practices, fasting, solitary prayers and the study of the scriptures in their isolated cells, each with its separate holy sanctuary, and enclosed courtyard...
::::::
The similarities between the Therapeutae and Buddhist monasticism, a tradition earlier by several centuries, combined with Indian evidence of Buddhist missionary activity to the Mediterranean around 250 BCE (the Edicts of Ashoka), have been pointed out. The Therapeutae would have been the descendants of Ashoka's emissaries to the West, and would have influenced the early formation of Christianity. The linguist Zacharias P. Thundy also suggests that the word "Therapeutae" is only a Hellenisation of the Indian Pali word for traditional Buddhists, Theravada. In general, Egypt had intense trade and cultural contacts with India during the period, as described in the 1st century CE Periplus of the Erythraean Sea.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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Re: (The failure to) Go West
I wonder if they were somehow wiped out or fell out of favour by a more user friendly religion?
With Metta
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
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Re: (The failure to) Go West
and would have influenced the early formation of Christianity.
How interesting, especially in light of Gnosticism, which had many ideals similar to Buddhism and which was unfortunately utterly destroyed.
J
How interesting, especially in light of Gnosticism, which had many ideals similar to Buddhism and which was unfortunately utterly destroyed.
J
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?
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Re: (The failure to) Go West
Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face,
tho' they come from the ends of the earth!
Rudyard Kipling
I think it was the cultural and religious differences that kept it from spreading West. But thank goodness for Anagarika Dharmapala, Henry Olcott, and others who did make it come full circle to the West and back again.
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face,
tho' they come from the ends of the earth!
Rudyard Kipling
I think it was the cultural and religious differences that kept it from spreading West. But thank goodness for Anagarika Dharmapala, Henry Olcott, and others who did make it come full circle to the West and back again.
Re: (The failure to) Go West
There are a handful of surviving references to Buddhism in the Hellenistic world scattered around. One says that a Greek monarch converted to Buddhism but there's no independent verification of this.
Not the only, or even main, factor, but one of the huge checks to Buddhism's westward expansion was the rise of Islam.
Not the only, or even main, factor, but one of the huge checks to Buddhism's westward expansion was the rise of Islam.
"We do not embrace reason at the expense of emotion. We embrace it at the expense of self-deception."
-- Herbert Muschamp
-- Herbert Muschamp
Re: (The failure to) Go West
Here is an English translation of the only account of Therapeutae monks:Dmytro wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeut%C3%A6
http://cornerstonepublications.org/Phil ... iants.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: (The failure to) Go West
Interesting, if not easy, reading. Thanks.Oleksandr wrote:Here is an English translation of the only account of Therapeutae monks:Dmytro wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeut%C3%A6
http://cornerstonepublications.org/Phil ... iants.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: (The failure to) Go West
I love stuff like this. Thanks!
J
J
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?
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Re: (The failure to) Go West
Pretty fascinating implications. This would make a good movie/book...
Move over DiVinci Codes....
The Therapeutae of Antiquity
Check out:
300 CE -- Porphyry
ON ABSTINENCE FROM ANIMAL FOOD
BOOK 4: 6-22
Move over DiVinci Codes....
The Therapeutae of Antiquity
Check out:
300 CE -- Porphyry
ON ABSTINENCE FROM ANIMAL FOOD
BOOK 4: 6-22
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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Re: (The failure to) Go West
Christians and Muslims with swords, I think. Thankfully, it snuck its way in under the guise of secular philosophy and was mysteriously re-discovered in modern times, and is slowly chipping away at traditional western superstitions and misconceptions.retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Buddhism seemed to travel happily in an Eastern direction across the Asian continent... I'm just wondering what forces stopped it making much progress in the westerly direction too?
I recall seeing that there was once some kind of Buddhist presence in Pakistan and Greece, but what exactly happened? What stopped the Dhamma's westward march?
Metta,
Retro.
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Re: (The failure to) Go West
...or layering more superstition and misconceptions on top of multiple layers of delusion and magical thinking. Not all types of "Buddhism" are appropriate for the collective Western mind in the condition its in, imo.Individual wrote:and is slowly chipping away at traditional western superstitions and misconceptions.retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Buddhism seemed to travel happily in an Eastern direction across the Asian continent... I'm just wondering what forces stopped it making much progress in the westerly direction too?
I recall seeing that there was once some kind of Buddhist presence in Pakistan and Greece, but what exactly happened? What stopped the Dhamma's westward march?
Metta,
Retro.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss
- Dawa Gyaltsen
---
Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss
- Dawa Gyaltsen
---
Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.