(The failure to) Go West

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27839
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

(The failure to) Go West

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,

Buddhism seemed to travel happily in an Eastern direction across the Asian continent... I'm just wondering what forces stopped it making much progress in the westerly direction too?

I recall seeing that there was once some kind of Buddhist presence in Pakistan and Greece, but what exactly happened? What stopped the Dhamma's westward march?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
User avatar
appicchato
Posts: 1602
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:47 am
Location: Bridge on the River Kwae

Re: (The failure to) Go West

Post by appicchato »

Hi Paul,

Hmmm...good question...

I just went here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Se ... lla-search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just starting to snoop around a little though, and not much...yet... :reading:
User avatar
Assaji
Posts: 2106
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:24 pm

Re: (The failure to) Go West

Post by Assaji »

Hi Retro,

You may find interesting the page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeut%C3%A6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta, Dmytro
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27839
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: (The failure to) Go West

Post by retrofuturist »

A post from Genkaku that he could not get to stick...
I don't know the historical answer, but the first thing into my head was that it did make it (via the Silk Route?) to Afghanistan where the Taliban, in later times, blew up the statues at Bamiyan. And the spread to Afghanistan was more than cosmetic if I judge from a friend of mine who said she was once doing zazen behind a large Buddha statue in Afghanistan when someone passed by and dropped a few coins in her lap.
Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
User avatar
christopher:::
Posts: 1327
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am

Re: (The failure to) Go West

Post by christopher::: »

Dmytro wrote:Hi Retro,

You may find interesting the page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeut%C3%A6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

excerpts:

Therapeutae

The Therapeutae (male, pl.) and Therapeutrides (female, pl.), according to the account in De vita contemplativa by the Jewish philosopher Philo of Alexandria (c. 20 BCE - 50 CE) who appears to have been personally acquainted with them, were "philosophers" (cf. I.2) that lived on a low hill by the Lake Mareotis close to Alexandria in circumstances resembling lavrite life (cf. III.22), and were "the best" of a kind given to "perfect goodness" that "exists in many places in the inhabited world" (cf. III.21). Philo derives the name Therapeutae/Therapeutides from Greek θεραπεύω in the sense of "cure" or "worship" (cf. I.2), whilst Pseudo-Dionysius favours the meaning "servants".

According to Philo, the Therapeutae were widely distributed in the Ancient world, among the Greeks and beyond in the non-Greek world of the "Barbarians", with one of ther major gathering point being in Alexandria, in the area of the Lake Mareotis. They lived chastely with utter simplicity; they "first of all laid down temperance as a sort of foundation for the soul to rest upon, proceed to build up other virtues on this foundation" (Philo). They were dedicated to the contemplative life, and their activities for six days of the week consisted of ascetic practices, fasting, solitary prayers and the study of the scriptures in their isolated cells, each with its separate holy sanctuary, and enclosed courtyard...

::::::

The similarities between the Therapeutae and Buddhist monasticism, a tradition earlier by several centuries, combined with Indian evidence of Buddhist missionary activity to the Mediterranean around 250 BCE (the Edicts of Ashoka), have been pointed out. The Therapeutae would have been the descendants of Ashoka's emissaries to the West, and would have influenced the early formation of Christianity. The linguist Zacharias P. Thundy also suggests that the word "Therapeutae" is only a Hellenisation of the Indian Pali word for traditional Buddhists, Theravada. In general, Egypt had intense trade and cultural contacts with India during the period, as described in the 1st century CE Periplus of the Erythraean Sea.

Asoka_Kaart.gif
Asoka_Kaart.gif (19.67 KiB) Viewed 4982 times
Fascinating!!

:namaste:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: (The failure to) Go West

Post by rowyourboat »

I wonder if they were somehow wiped out or fell out of favour by a more user friendly religion?
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
User avatar
BubbaBuddhist
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:55 am
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: (The failure to) Go West

Post by BubbaBuddhist »

and would have influenced the early formation of Christianity.

How interesting, especially in light of Gnosticism, which had many ideals similar to Buddhism and which was unfortunately utterly destroyed.

J
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 17169
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: (The failure to) Go West

Post by DNS »

Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face,
tho' they come from the ends of the earth!


Rudyard Kipling


I think it was the cultural and religious differences that kept it from spreading West. But thank goodness for Anagarika Dharmapala, Henry Olcott, and others who did make it come full circle to the West and back again.
User avatar
Mexicali
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:12 pm

Re: (The failure to) Go West

Post by Mexicali »

There are a handful of surviving references to Buddhism in the Hellenistic world scattered around. One says that a Greek monarch converted to Buddhism but there's no independent verification of this.

Not the only, or even main, factor, but one of the huge checks to Buddhism's westward expansion was the rise of Islam.
"We do not embrace reason at the expense of emotion. We embrace it at the expense of self-deception."
-- Herbert Muschamp
vitellius
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:21 pm

Re: (The failure to) Go West

Post by vitellius »

Here is an English translation of the only account of Therapeutae monks:
http://cornerstonepublications.org/Phil ... iants.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
User avatar
genkaku
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:14 pm
Location: Northampton, Mass. U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: (The failure to) Go West

Post by genkaku »

Oleksandr wrote:
Here is an English translation of the only account of Therapeutae monks:
http://cornerstonepublications.org/Phil ... iants.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Interesting, if not easy, reading. Thanks.
User avatar
BubbaBuddhist
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:55 am
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: (The failure to) Go West

Post by BubbaBuddhist »

I love stuff like this. Thanks!

J
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?
User avatar
christopher:::
Posts: 1327
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am

Re: (The failure to) Go West

Post by christopher::: »

Pretty fascinating implications. This would make a good movie/book...
Move over DiVinci Codes....

The Therapeutae of Antiquity


Check out:

300 CE -- Porphyry

ON ABSTINENCE FROM ANIMAL FOOD
BOOK 4: 6-22
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
Individual
Posts: 1970
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:19 am

Re: (The failure to) Go West

Post by Individual »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

Buddhism seemed to travel happily in an Eastern direction across the Asian continent... I'm just wondering what forces stopped it making much progress in the westerly direction too?

I recall seeing that there was once some kind of Buddhist presence in Pakistan and Greece, but what exactly happened? What stopped the Dhamma's westward march?

Metta,
Retro. :)
Christians and Muslims with swords, I think. Thankfully, it snuck its way in under the guise of secular philosophy and was mysteriously re-discovered in modern times, and is slowly chipping away at traditional western superstitions and misconceptions.
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
User avatar
pink_trike
Posts: 1130
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:29 am
Contact:

Re: (The failure to) Go West

Post by pink_trike »

Individual wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

Buddhism seemed to travel happily in an Eastern direction across the Asian continent... I'm just wondering what forces stopped it making much progress in the westerly direction too?

I recall seeing that there was once some kind of Buddhist presence in Pakistan and Greece, but what exactly happened? What stopped the Dhamma's westward march?

Metta,
Retro. :)
and is slowly chipping away at traditional western superstitions and misconceptions.
...or layering more superstition and misconceptions on top of multiple layers of delusion and magical thinking. Not all types of "Buddhism" are appropriate for the collective Western mind in the condition its in, imo.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
Post Reply