Ajahn Chah lineage?

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Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby Stephen K » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:57 pm

I would like to know Ajahn Chah's lineage of teachers going back to as many generations of teachers as possible.

So far, after my very brief search I have found just two:

Ajahn Chah < Ajahn Mun < Ajahn Sao


Any help would greatly be appreciated!
Thanks.
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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby daverupa » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:14 pm

Prince Mongkut was a bhikkhu from 1824 to 1851, and started the Dhammayuttika Nikaya as a reform movement in 1833 (which was officially recognized in 1902). Ajahn Sao was born in 1861, but I'm not sure when he ordained. The earliest would be 1880, while Ajahn Mun was ordained in 1893 and Ajahn Chah in 1939.

Given all this, it seems you'd only really need one or two more names; prior that that, the Dhammayuttika Nikaya didn't exist.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby Stephen K » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:30 pm

daverupa wrote:Prince Mongkut was a bhikkhu from 1824 to 1851, and started the Dhammayuttika Nikaya as a reform movement in 1833 (which was officially recognized in 1902). Ajahn Sao was born in 1861, but I'm not sure when he ordained. The earliest would be 1880, while Ajahn Mun was ordained in 1893 and Ajahn Chah in 1939.

Given all this, it seems you'd only really need one or two more names; prior that that, the Dhammayuttika Nikaya didn't exist.


Thank you very much for the info! Could I ask for your source?
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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby Mr Man » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:55 pm

I don't think Ajahn Chah had a lineage of teachers as such. I would say his lineage was Dhamma Vinaya and he was influenced by a number of teachers and events.
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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby Mr Man » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:22 pm

You can listen to a biography of Ajahn Chah here: http://www.ajahnchah.org/videos.htm
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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby daverupa » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:24 pm

Stefan wrote:
daverupa wrote:Prince Mongkut was a bhikkhu from 1824 to 1851, and started the Dhammayuttika Nikaya as a reform movement in 1833 (which was officially recognized in 1902). Ajahn Sao was born in 1861, but I'm not sure when he ordained. The earliest would be 1880, while Ajahn Mun was ordained in 1893 and Ajahn Chah in 1939.

Given all this, it seems you'd only really need one or two more names; prior that that, the Dhammayuttika Nikaya didn't exist.


Thank you very much for the info! Could I ask for your source?


The wiki articles on these individuals, in fact. They seem to correlate with the facts which can be found through other sources, including their biographies.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby Otsom » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:35 pm

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Last edited by Otsom on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby appicchato » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:18 pm

Given all this, it seems you'd only really need one or two more names; prior that that, the Dhammayuttika Nikaya didn't exist.


The OP aside, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Ajahn Chah was Mahanikaya....
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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby daverupa » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:54 pm

appicchato wrote:
Given all this, it seems you'd only really need one or two more names; prior that that, the Dhammayuttika Nikaya didn't exist.


The OP aside, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Ajahn Chah was Mahanikaya....


I think you're correct; yet Ajahn Mun and Ajahn Sao were Dhammayuttika Nikaya. Sounds like this lineage question must be pursued in an altogether different direction...
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby bodom » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:03 pm

Biography of Ajahn Chah
http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/About_Ajahn_Chah.php

Video Series: Biography of Ajahn Chah
http://www.ajahnchah.org/videos.htm

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby bodom » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:11 pm

Stefan wrote:Ajahn Chah < Ajahn Mun < Ajahn Sao.


Ajahn Chah himself says in the book Food for the Heart that he only spent 3 days with Ajahn Mun, after this he went off on tudong for 7 years on his own.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby Bankei » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:47 am

There could be two different 'lineages" - ordination lineage and teacher/disciple lineage (in the broad sense).

Achan Chah was of a completely separate ordination lineage to Achan Mun because they belonged to different nikaya.
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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby Sokehi » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:47 am

That shows quite clearly that formal lineages are sometimes of lesser importance than being inspired through the even shortest meeting with a impressive personality.

Lineages are born quite often I guess. Sometimes disciples focus on their very own teacher and claim to be in a very new lineage of their own.

Sometimes I find this quite irritating, disciples focus so much on their teacher that he seems to get even more important than the Dhamma or the Buddha. Guru cults are dangerous.
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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby DAWN » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:53 pm

Can we say that Ajhan Mun plant the seed in Ajahn Chah ? If we can say that, so we can also say that he was his teacher.
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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby daverupa » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:01 pm

It all requires the arising of a tathagata in the world, in our case the Buddha.

AN 5.88 is noteworthy in this connection, as there we can read that a popular monk with many followers - a celebrity monk, if you like - can still have wrong view.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:13 pm

DAWN wrote:Can we say that Ajhan Mun plant the seed in Ajahn Chah ? If we can say that, so we can also say that he was his teacher.

Ajahn Chah was a Bhikkhu years before meeting Ajahn Mun, it would be fairer to say that Ajahn Chah recieved confirmation from Tahn Ajahn Mun about the way to go forward.
I believe Luang Por Chah met Disciples of Ajahn Mun first, but still this was some time after ordination and going off alone. he went to the monastery through his own choice very young, as he was fed up with life - although his sister says it was after a blow to the head.
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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby DAWN » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:26 pm

Cittasanto wrote:
DAWN wrote:Can we say that Ajhan Mun plant the seed in Ajahn Chah ? If we can say that, so we can also say that he was his teacher.

Ajahn Chah was a Bhikkhu years before meeting Ajahn Mun, it would be fairer to say that Ajahn Chah recieved confirmation from Tahn Ajahn Mun about the way to go forward.
I believe Luang Por Chah met Disciples of Ajahn Mun first, but still this was some time after ordination and going off alone. he went to the monastery through his own choice very young, as he was fed up with life - although his sister says it was after a blow to the head.


I'am sorry, i dont said very clearly
By telling about seed, i mean the seed of 7 years dutong practice, i think this period was determinating for Ajahn Chah's practice and comprehention of The Dhamma.
It's my supposition :roll:
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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby bodom » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:52 pm

daverupa wrote:It all requires the arising of a tathagata in the world, in our case the Buddha.

AN 5.88 is noteworthy in this connection, as there we can read that a popular monk with many followers - a celebrity monk, if you like - can still have wrong view.


Im not making the connection here Dave. Is this to suggest that you believe Ajahn Chah was of wrong view?

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby SamBodhi » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:01 pm

Stephen K,

It is my understanding that a god deal of Ajahn Chah's students are still around. And when I say "students" I mean those who are now teachers but learned from Ajahn Chah. I am wondering if it would be possible for you to just ask them what Venerable Ajahn Chah's view of "lineage" was and to find out who would be listed in what we might call a teaching lineage. I find it very likely that because these Archariyas were to be teaching and leading monastics, Ajahn Chah may have mentioned some pertinent information to them that is not found in books or other sources.

Or you might find that some don't think it's important and that Ajahn Chah's teaching legacy can be found in his books and in your own heart.


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Re: Ajahn Chah lineage?

Postby daverupa » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:02 am

bodom wrote:
daverupa wrote:It all requires the arising of a tathagata in the world, in our case the Buddha.

AN 5.88 is noteworthy in this connection, as there we can read that a popular monk with many followers - a celebrity monk, if you like - can still have wrong view.


Im not making the connection here Dave. Is this to suggest that you believe Ajahn Chah was of wrong view?

:anjali:


Oh not at all; simply underlining this strange 'lineage' idea.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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