The Four Noble Truths

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Jarmika
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The Four Noble Truths

Postby Jarmika » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:20 am

The Four Noble Truths:

1. All things and experiences are marked by suffering/ disharmony/ frustration (dukkha).

2. The arising of suffering/ disharmony/ frustration comes from desire/ craving/ clinging.

3. To achieve the cessation or end of suffering/ disharmony/ frustration, let go of desire/ craving/ clinging.

4. The way to achieve that cessation of suffering/ disharmony/ frustration, is walking the Eightfold Path.

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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: The Four Noble Truths

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:31 am

Jarmika,

Have you posted this in order to begin a discussion? I took the liberty to move the post here in the chance that you were hoping to do so. Be well.

KB
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

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SilvioB
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Re: The Four Noble Truths

Postby SilvioB » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:26 am

Hello Jarmika

I read your post and hope to ask you a question, if I can.

If all things and all experiences are marked by suffering/ disharmony/ frustration, how can a person achieve the cessation or end of suffering/ disharmony/ frustration?

Or is the cessation or end of suffering not a 'thing' and not an 'experience'?

Thank you

Silvio

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Fede
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Re: The Four Noble Truths

Postby Fede » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:21 am

"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Buckwheat
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Re: The Four Noble Truths

Postby Buckwheat » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:46 am

This formulation is simplistic, but I have it in mind for friends who know nothing about Buddhism, will only listen to a very brief summary, and don't want any jargon. Kind feedback is appreciated.

There is suffering.
Suffering has causes.
You can choose nirvana.
To do that, master virtue, concentration, and wisdom.

1) The first line stimulates further inquiry into the domain of suffering, which is important because suffering must be understood in terms of one's own experience.

2) I also like to leave the cause of suffering unspecified because a) desire is good in the Four Bases of Success, and b) one must examine all things that lead to suffering, including the causes of clinging such as ignorance.

3) The third is my favorite: this is where the Buddha gives us hope and inspiration. You can have nirvana!! It will not be easy or quick, but it is yours for the taking right here and now.

4) Finally, I like to spell out the general form of the eightfold path so that the Four Noble Truths are a self contained set without expounding the entire Eightfold Path. This is where my signature comes from, where Calm = Concentration, Wise = Wisdom, and Love = Virtue. I think of love not as a sentimental emotion, but as actions such as right speech, action, and livelihood that spring from compassion and goodwill.
My signature used to be:
CALM
WISE
LOVE
Last edited by Buckwheat on Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

Jarmika
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Re: The Four Noble Truths

Postby Jarmika » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:44 pm

Buddha said:

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. Do not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.
:buddha1:

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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: The Four Noble Truths

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:18 am

To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

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SilvioB
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Re: The Four Noble Truths

Postby SilvioB » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:22 am


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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: The Four Noble Truths

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:35 am

To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

Uposatha Observance Club:
My Practice Blog:

Buckwheat
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Re: The Four Noble Truths

Postby Buckwheat » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:51 pm

Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

SilvioB
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Re: The Four Noble Truths

Postby SilvioB » Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:48 am


Buckwheat
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Re: The Four Noble Truths

Postby Buckwheat » Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:14 am

I did not say you are misguided, or question your character. Also, I am certainly not enlightened, so I apologize if I was talking at you as if I am a teacher. I do, however, see a flaw with one line of your post (it's a mistake we all struggle with until we become arahants, and the rest of your post was excellent :thumbsup:). My main point is to be careful using words and concepts to gain intellectual understanding of nirvana. They are so often misleading.

As for faith, it is central to Buddhism: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el065.html

In this essay, Bhikkhu Bodhi describes the Four Noble Truths as a series of tasks: understand suffering, abandon the causes of suffering, realize nirvana, and develop the practice. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ay_20.html

And one more neat one where nirvana is described as an action to be performed: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... averb.html
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

Gena1480
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Re: The Four Noble Truths

Postby Gena1480 » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:33 pm

The Noble Truth of Suffering (dukkha), monks, is this: Birth is suffering, aging is suffering, sickness is suffering, death is suffering, association with the unpleasant is suffering, dissociation from the pleasant is suffering, not to receive what one desires is suffering — in brief the five aggregates subject to grasping are suffering.

The Noble Truth of the Origin (cause) of Suffering is this: It is this craving (thirst) which produces re-becoming (rebirth) accompanied by passionate greed, and finding fresh delight now here, and now there, namely craving for sense pleasure, craving for existence and craving for non-existence (self-annihilation).

The Noble Truth of the Cessation of Suffering is this: It is the complete cessation of that very craving, giving it up, relinquishing it, liberating oneself from it, and detaching oneself from it.

The Noble Truth of the Path Leading to the Cessation of Suffering is this: It is the Noble Eightfold Path, and nothing else, namely: right understanding, right thought, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration.[2]

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .piya.html

squarepeg
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Re: The Four Noble Truths

Postby squarepeg » Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:56 pm

"Yadisam vapate bijam tadisam harate phalam" — as we sow, so shall we reap
Maranam Bhavissati - "death will take place"

upasiaka
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Re: The Four Noble Truths

Postby upasiaka » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:08 pm

Theravada is very good.

squarepeg
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Re: The Four Noble Truths

Postby squarepeg » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:33 pm

"Yadisam vapate bijam tadisam harate phalam" — as we sow, so shall we reap
Maranam Bhavissati - "death will take place"

locrian
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Re: The Four Noble Truths

Postby locrian » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:38 pm

Silvio asked a very good question (IMO) and it made me laugh (which I enjoy). If all = suffering then nothing does not...sound logic to my way of thinking at any rate :)
I often imagine that it's as simple as this; Suffering exists; deal with it or change your mind!
(and there seems to be infinite ways to do that)


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