Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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retrofuturist
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Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:51 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby stuka » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:22 pm

Annihiliationism holds the speculative view that when a person dies, nothing continues to any sort of "other life". It stands in opposition to the position of eternalists, who hold that there is some sort of inner entity that continues after death. Both positions are at extreme opposite ends of a spectrum.

Often a Straw Man argument is lodged by eternalilsts against persons who do not hold either view, that claims that this "holding no view" is a form of annihiliationism, or that it is "eel wriggling". The Buddha's Noble teachings, the path of discernment, set aside any need for such speculative views to base a moral code upon, rendering such arguments, either way, irrelevant to his moral code, and to his noble teachings and practice. The Buddha himself professed neither view, and the eternalists' straw man arguments paint the Buddha Himself as an annihiliationist, or as an "eel-wriggler", both of which were in fact claims made by eternalists toward Him in his day.

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Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby stuka » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:36 pm


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gavesako
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Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby gavesako » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:33 am

Here are some interesting suggestions from Nanavira-Nanamoli correspondence:

http://nanavira.blogspot.com/2008/09/el-119-1v1958.html
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

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Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby Element » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:16 am


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Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:27 pm


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Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby stuka » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:21 pm


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Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby piper » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:43 pm


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Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby Individual » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:47 pm

I once remember hearing a Christian pastor criticizing Atheists' view of death.

He said something like, "When Atheists say you die, they say that's it. You're gone forever. You're basically just worm-dirt."

Annihilationism seems to be rooted in the delusional belief of materialism, in believing that the "self" arose out of matter and that once matter dissolves, self (including self-consciousnesses) ceases to exist... ever.
The best things in life aren't things.


Element

Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby Element » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:43 pm


Element

Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby Element » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:57 am


Element

Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby Element » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:06 am


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Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby stuka » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:24 am


Element

Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby Element » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:46 am


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Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby stuka » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:01 am


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Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:37 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby clw_uk » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:23 pm

Isnt annihilationism just a flase view that there is a self to be annihilated instead of seeing that there was no permanent self in the first place to be annihilated as all things are impermanent, dukkha and not-self and are dependent on conditions?
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:39 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby Individual » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:45 am

The best things in life aren't things.


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Re: Ucchedavada (annihilationism) - what does it actually mean?

Postby kc2dpt » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:10 am

- Peter



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