vow of silence

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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vow of silence

Postby befriend » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:26 pm

why do some monks take vows of silence for life? metta, befriend

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Re: vow of silence

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:49 pm

befriend wrote:why do some monks take vows of silence for life? metta, befriend


what tradision are you on about? I only know of this in the christian monastic tradition and only the more cloistered ones!
within buddhism this sort of behaviour is discouraged by the vinaya as there is an encouragement to talk to each other about problems with practice, difficulties, or even personal issues with another, see the ten topics of conversation, or admonishment on access to insight/Buddhist Monastic Code. and as right speech is also part of the path....

edit - I should point out that needless talking is discouraged.
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Re: vow of silence

Postby befriend » Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:27 am

hahahah probably from watching hangover 2 where they go to a thailand. not a very good resource for buddhism. and mad tv where a phoney steven segal gets mad at a monk for not talking. oh man.

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Re: vow of silence

Postby Fede » Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:39 am

talk about 'wrong forum'.... :roll: perhaps a little more research other than watching a second-rate b-movie might have been in order.... :jedi:
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Re: vow of silence

Postby befriend » Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:17 am

yeah thats why i asked here.

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Re: vow of silence

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:18 am

http://youtu.be/SYkbqzWVHZI

no idea how to get video to embed on here but about 50 secs in!
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Re: vow of silence

Postby appicchato » Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:38 am

Be nice now Alex... :smile:

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Re: vow of silence

Postby reflection » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:31 am

Manapa wrote:http://youtu.be/SYkbqzWVHZI

no idea how to get video to embed on here but about 50 secs in!

Hi Manapa,

Didn't you mean this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krb2OdQksMc

Metta,
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:namaste:

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Re: vow of silence

Postby Fede » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:52 am

appicchato wrote:Be nice now Alex... :smile:


sorry Bhante. :namaste: :embarassed: :smile:

befriend, I apologise for my tone.
I. possibly the greatest doofus-noodle you could ever meet, should be the last one making such observations. :reading:

(but I still think Steven Segal's films should not be taken as points of reliable reference - particularly in isolation to everything else!) :rofl:
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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Re: vow of silence

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:38 am

reflection wrote:
Manapa wrote:http://youtu.be/SYkbqzWVHZI

no idea how to get video to embed on here but about 50 secs in!

Hi Manapa,

Didn't you mean this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krb2OdQksMc

Metta,
Reflection
:namaste:


I couldn't remember which scene that was in :( my python knowledge is waning since I havn't watched it in over 2 years :tantrum:
but I shall guard my memory with a nine bladed sword not 2 not 5 not 7 but a nine bladed sword or I will not be able to find what was put there only the night before by my father :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmyuE0Np ... re=related

but :offtopic:
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Re: vow of silence

Postby befriend » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:38 pm

thanks for the apology. vows of silence dont sound that far fetched as meditators observe noble silence on retreats, and talking for entertainment isnt very condusive to eradicating desire. metta, befriend

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Re: vow of silence

Postby Viscid » Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:02 pm

A vow of silence has some similarity to a dhutanga: an austerity which distances one from worldliness, and reinforces commitment to their practice.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James

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Re: vow of silence

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:59 pm

Viscid wrote:A vow of silence has some similarity to a dhutanga: an austerity which distances one from worldliness, and reinforces commitment to their practice.

yeah but it isn't a dhutanga! out of the thirteen speaking isn't covered!

noble silence isn't the same as a vow of silence and is what I described above.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

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Re: vow of silence

Postby manas » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:18 pm

In my personal experience, two things are not that hard: talking too much, or not talking at all. What is more challenging is talking only when necessary, or only when it is conducive to the benefit of self or others.

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Re: vow of silence

Postby Viscid » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:29 pm

Manapa wrote:
Viscid wrote:A vow of silence has some similarity to a dhutanga: an austerity which distances one from worldliness, and reinforces commitment to their practice.

yeah but it isn't a dhutanga! out of the thirteen speaking isn't covered!



I know, I know.
'has some similarity to' meaning someone might be motivated to make a vow of silence for the same reasons that one make undertake a few dhutangas. It's a way to live which may be beneficial for their practice. (Though I imagine for Christians, such a vow could be a gesture of obedience to God)
"What holds attention determines action." - William James

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Re: vow of silence

Postby perkele » Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:46 am

I remember a sutta where the Buddha admonishes a group of monks for their having taken on the practice of silence during the rains retreat and not talked to each other.

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Re: vow of silence

Postby Ben » Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:49 am

perkele wrote:I remember a sutta where the Buddha admonishes a group of monks for their having taken on the practice of silence during the rains retreat and not talked to each other.


Ah yes, but what is the context?

There is also another sutta where the Buddha admonishes Sariputta and Mogallana Theras for bringing a bunch of 500 chattering and rowdy monks to the forest where the Buddha was abiding. The Buddha up and left, whereupon Sariputta and Mogallana went and requested the Buddha to continue to lead the sangha.
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in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

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sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: vow of silence

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:22 pm

Ben wrote:
perkele wrote:I remember a sutta where the Buddha admonishes a group of monks for their having taken on the practice of silence during the rains retreat and not talked to each other.


Ah yes, but what is the context?

There is also another sutta where the Buddha admonishes Sariputta and Mogallana Theras for bringing a bunch of 500 chattering and rowdy monks to the forest where the Buddha was abiding. The Buddha up and left, whereupon Sariputta and Mogallana went and requested the Buddha to continue to lead the sangha.
kind regards,

Ben

There is another sutta Identical in almost all details to the one perkele mentioned and I mentioned in my first post on this thread!
the bigest difference is that the monks talked Dhamma or meditated together on observance nights (that is my impression anyway but may be wrong in the reason for the meeting?) and only talked what was nececery! no needless chatter or silence, when there was a problem they tried to sort it out! they discussed the training and their insights with each other! that is the difference, the context although I do not have the relevant text at hand does seam to be the inclination to be extream with the speech either in silence or chatter! and if you look at the speech aspect of the texts (sutta & vinaya) it is very detailed, and there are some rules which can be broken by speech even if it is not a rule directly related to speech, take murder & theft from the Patimokha as example both can be broken via speech not solely ones own body action.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."


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