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Samatha: supression and cultivation - Dhamma Wheel

Samatha: supression and cultivation

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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Ben
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Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby Ben » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:52 am

Greetings all,

When we develop samatha we do this by"supressing" the hindrances. This description of "supression" is in both ancient and modern literature. What is meant by supression? Do we enter Jhana as a result of actively suppressing the hindrances or does supression occur passively as a result of developing concentration?

Similarly we read samatha is developing by cultivation of the jhana factors. Are the jhana factors actively developed or do they develop naturally as a result of maintaining unbroken attention on the meditation object?

I am interested in ideas that are supported whether its by suttanta, abhidhamma, ancient commentarial literature and the works of later scholars and respected meditation teachers or a combination of sources. While I am very happy to hear of ideas informed by meditative experience for the sake of this discussion they should be balanced by textual support as well.
I am interested in containing the discussion to the development of the first jhana.
I don't care for side discussions about who has the most authoritative approach and whose is deficient.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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cooran
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Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby cooran » Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:35 am

Hello Ben, and all,

A few references as a basis for discussion:

The Five Mental Hindrances, by Nyanaponika Thera
http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh026-p.html

Nīvarana: 'hindrances', are 5 qualities which are obstacles to the mind and blind our mental vision. In the presence of them we cannot reach neighbourhood-concentration upacāra-samādhi and full concentration appanā-samādhi, and are unable to discern clearly the truth. They are:
1. sense-desire kāmacchanda,
2. ill-will vyāpāda,
3. lethargy and Laziness thīna-middha,
4. restlessness and regrets uddhacca-kukkucca and
5. skeptical doubt vicikicchā.
[more .............. ]
http://what-buddha-said.net/library/Bud ... c3_n.htm#nīvarana

Vikkhambhana-pahāna: 'overcoming by repression' or 'suspension', is one of the 5 kinds of overcoming pahāna.
http://what-buddha-said.net/library/Bud ... mbhana-pahāna

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

Brizzy
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Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby Brizzy » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:59 am

Ignorance is an intentional act.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:32 am


Brizzy
Posts: 138
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Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby Brizzy » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:12 am

Ignorance is an intentional act.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:17 am


Brizzy
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:58 am

Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby Brizzy » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:40 am

Ignorance is an intentional act.

Brizzy
Posts: 138
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Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby Brizzy » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:58 am

Ignorance is an intentional act.

Otsom
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Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby Otsom » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:10 am

.
Last edited by Otsom on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Brizzy
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Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby Brizzy » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:49 am

Ignorance is an intentional act.

Otsom
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Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby Otsom » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:17 am

.
Last edited by Otsom on Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ben
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Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby Ben » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:38 am

But what about samatha practices that do not rely on recollections to cause the hindrances to become quiescent or the jhana factors to manifest?
What is going on?
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Brizzy
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:58 am

Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby Brizzy » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:28 pm

Ignorance is an intentional act.

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gavesako
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Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby gavesako » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:17 pm

Tadanga-nibbana is mentioned in the Anguttaranikaya. It is a state that comes about momentarily when external conditions happen, fortuitously, to be such that no idea of "I" or "mine" arises. Tadanga-nibbana is momentary cessation of the idea "I," "mine," due to favorable external circumstances. At a higher level than this, if we engage in some form of Dharma practice, in particular if we develop concentration, so that the idea of "I," "mine" cannot arise, that extinction of "I," "mine" is called vikkhambhana-nibbana. And finally, when we succeed in bringing about the complete elimination of all defilements, that is full Nirvana, total Nirvana.

-- Buddhadasa

http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books3/Bhikk ... r_of_I.htm
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

Brizzy
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Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby Brizzy » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:33 pm

Ignorance is an intentional act.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:07 pm


sattva
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Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby sattva » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:31 pm

Dear Ben,
I have to admit that I was very interested in this thread, but find it confusing. I don't know if it is possible to do this, but could i make a suggestion? Is there a way to ask your questions of one or even several teachers and get their replies to the questions raised? I don't know about others, but i would find it very helpful. Thanks.
with metta,
sattva/louise

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Ben
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Location: kanamaluka

Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby Ben » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:34 pm

Hi Louise,

I'll see what I can do to add some clarification from respected teachers.
I apologise for the confusion.
with metta,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Brizzy
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:58 am

Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby Brizzy » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:01 am

I posted this link on another posting, I personally feel it has a lot to offer with regard to the questions regarding the hindrances, jhana and meditation in general within the Buddha's dispensation.



Metta

:smile:
Ignorance is an intentional act.

Nyana
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Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:56 am

Re: Samatha: supression and cultivation

Postby Nyana » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:09 pm



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