Stream-Entry and Hindrance of Doubt

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Stream-Entry and Hindrance of Doubt

Postby beoman » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:49 pm

The second fetter is doubt (vicikiccha). The fifth hindrance is doubt (vicikiccha). Does this mean that a stream-enterer no longer experiences the fetter of doubt, whatsoever, in any form?
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Re: Stream-Entry and Hindrance of Doubt

Postby cooran » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:55 pm

Hello beoman,

Here are some suttas and teachings on Stream Entry –
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-su ... tml#stream

including why uncertainty doesn’t arise
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Stream-Entry and Hindrance of Doubt

Postby reflection » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:04 pm

Hi!

Interesting question.

The second fetter is also translated as "skepticism" or I would say "doubt about the dhamma". Because a stream enterer directly has seen the no-self, there would be no doubt about the words of the Buddha anymore. However, doubt about other things -like ones own capacities- are not included in this and can than still arise. By this reasoning, I don't think a SE has removed one of the 5 hindrances in meditation forever.

:namaste:
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Re: Stream-Entry and Hindrance of Doubt

Postby chownah » Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:52 am

I guess that a stream enterer might have some doubt about whether this or that translation of what the Buddha taught was correct or not. Since there are at least two translations and interpretations for every teaching and if a stream enterer couldn't doubt one of them then she would have to accept both of them and that seems sort of untenable....I guess....

Could it be that having faith in the Buddha had a different meaning when he was still alive and directly accessable and that now we need to work a bit harder at finding the meaning of "faith in the Buddha" or even "faith in the teachings of the Buddha" today?
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Re: Stream-Entry and Hindrance of Doubt

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:39 am

I remember readin Thanissaro Bhikkhus study guide on streementry, it was very interesting, but he links this to Kamma and its workings.

one may not understand Kamma in all its nuances but they trust the principles, the path & fruit etc because they hold right view.

I found this useful
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Stream-Entry and Hindrance of Doubt

Postby beoman » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:09 pm

cooran wrote:including why uncertainty doesn’t arise
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

That seems to be more about Arahants than Stream-Enterers. Arahants have
ended all views; stream-enterers, only personality-belief-views, no?
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Re: Stream-Entry and Hindrance of Doubt

Postby cooran » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:03 pm

Hello beoman, all,

This table may be helpful for you:

Qualities of Ariya Persons
http://www.thisismyanmar.com/nibbana/ariyas4.htm

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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