Compatibility of Buddha and Krishnamurti

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Goofaholix
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Re: Compatibility of Buddha and Krishnamurti

Post by Goofaholix »

mikenz66 wrote:Perhaps a little off topic, but my impression is that some Buddhist Teachers use "Choiceless Awareness" in a rather different way from either Krishnamurti or the "bare attention" terminology of some other Buddhist teachers.

For some, "choiceless awareness" seems to be used simply in the sense of not making a particular choice about what to observe. As opposed to choosing to watch the breath, abdomen, etc, or choosing to scan through the body. Basically like Mahasi-style meditation without a "primary object", one focuses on whatever arises.
That's my understanding as well, though perhaps awareness itself kind of becomes the object and the objects that arise and pass away do so within the field of awareness.

What's Krishnamurti's definition?
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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Viscid
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Re: Compatibility of Buddha and Krishnamurti

Post by Viscid »

Goofaholix wrote:What's Krishnamurti's definition?
Image
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
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Re: Compatibility of Buddha and Krishnamurti

Post by Goofaholix »

Viscid wrote:
Goofaholix wrote:What's Krishnamurti's definition?
Image
I think that's pretty compatible with how it's taught in Buddhist circles, though I guess it is just in the context of day to day activity whereas we would also practice it in formal sitting and walking meditation.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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Dan74
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Re: Compatibility of Buddha and Krishnamurti

Post by Dan74 »

The story about Krishnamurti's supposed affair with one of his closest students and subsequent abortions is controversial - I think there was a subsequent refutation but either way I don't know for sure.

As for his relationship with the Buddhadhamma, he always had a special place in his heart for Buddhist venerables and saw many. My friend Nadi tells me her grandfather who was a devout Buddhist brought him to speak in Sri Lanka. Evidently in those days many Buddhists had fondness for Krishnamurti as well.

As for his teachings, he emphasized broad ranging and deep inquiry, a unregimental personal and unque quest for liberation "truth is a pathless land" and the ending of all conflict in a very deep sense of the word.

Many report they would go into samadhi in his presence but there are also less that flattering anecdotes particularly to do with an irritable fussy and overly critical dispoaition.

One notion is that he was mostly a medium for a very insightful teacher which accords with many hints he himself gave and also explains many seeming contradictions and strange occurences.
_/|\_
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Re: Compatibility of Buddha and Krishnamurti

Post by ancientbuddhism »

TMingyur wrote:I think that Krishnamurti was anti-buddhist, very prejudiced against buddhism. Obviously he did not understand or confuse some traditions with buddha dhamma. Seems as if his approach has been based on thought only.
Once saw him talking with Chögyam Trungpa and he appeared like a child full of fantasies, babbling all the time while Trungpa kept silence most of the time. That was very revealing.
Every time I hear Krishnamurti talk with condescending derision about the ‘calamity’ of religious traditions of the East teaching meditation in the West, I think of this exchange between the Kālāma’s and the Buddha:
  • Sitting to one side the Kālāma’s of Kesaputta said this to the Sublime One: “Venerable Sir, there are some Brāhmans and ascetics that come to Kesaputta, who put forth and congratulate their own theories, only to revile, hold with contempt and disrespect as inferior the theories of others.
    - Kesamutta (Kālāma) Sutta (AN.3.66)
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Kim OHara
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Re: Compatibility of Buddha and Krishnamurti

Post by Kim OHara »

Getting right back to the OP:
retrofuturist wrote:Until now I've paid negligible attention to Krishnamurti, but I am currently reading a book called "Explorers of Inner Space: The Buddha, Krishnamurti & Kierkegaard" by Padmasiri de Silva and am now interested in the extent to which there may be overlap and even potentially synergy between what the Buddha and Krishnamurti taught.
The Buddha, Krishnamurti & Kierkegaard are an odd assortment, aren't they?
It's a long time since I had anything to do with Kierkegaard, or any interest in him. I came across him through Existentialism. Some writers revered him so I thought I should try reading him ... only to find someone so totally bogged down in self-absorbed, self-generated misery that I put the book down unfinished on the basis that anyone so miserable must be wrong on a quite fundamental level. The Existentialists as a whole were pretty bad that way but Kierkegaard ... :toilet:
How does de Silva relate him to the other two?

:namaste:
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Re: Compatibility of Buddha and Krishnamurti

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Kim,
Kim O'Hara wrote:Kierkegaard ... How does de Silva relate him to the other two?
Yeah, that's roughly about where I'm getting up to in the book. Page 82, which is near the end of the chapter I just finished, includes...
A new approach to existentialist philosophy has been presented in the discussion that follows this chapter. The discussion revolves round a cluster of problems and issues that cut across the philosophies of different existentialist thinkers. These problems have been subjected to a cross-disciplinary analysis and in doing this we have placed the philosophy of existentialism against the background of psycho-analysis and the wisdom of the Buddha.
:reading: :popcorn:

A small note - whilst the full "Explorers Of Inner Space" does not appear to be online, Part II of the book "Tangles and Webs: Comparative Studies in Existentialism" which I've just come to, appears to be online here... http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/padmas.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; although it "timed out" whilst I tried loading it, so can't confirm it's an active link.

I do like the Dhamma quote that kicks of Part II:

"A tangle inside, a tangle outside,
This generation is entangled in a tangle.
I ask you this, O Gotama,
Who can disentangle this tangle?"

"A man established on virtue, wise,
Developing the mind and wisdom,
A bhikkhu ardent and discreet:
He can disentangle this tangle."


(Kindred Sayings, I,13)

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Compatibility of Buddha and Krishnamurti

Post by Viscid »

How'd you come to find this book? It seems awfully obscure. I can't even find it on Amazon or Google Books.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James
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retrofuturist
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Re: Compatibility of Buddha and Krishnamurti

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Viscid wrote:How'd you come to find this book? It seems awfully obscure. I can't even find it on Amazon or Google Books.
Browsing online at the Buddhist Cultural Centre Bookshop. Here's the entry...

http://www.buddhistcc.net/bookshop/book ... p?bid=1464" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Mr Man
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Re: Compatibility of Buddha and Krishnamurti

Post by Mr Man »

Here is a little snippet where Goenka relates a meeting he had with Krishnamurti
http://www.buddhanet.net/bvk_study/bvk22c.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There seems to be a fair bit relating to Buddhism/Krishnamurti on the Buddhanet site.

I went to listen to Krishnamurti speak at Brockwood Park as a monk along with other monks - I found the atmosphere at Brockwood Park rarefied. I also remember watching a video of Krishnamurti teaching children in India, which I found very impressive. I would recommend "Krishnamurti's notebook" and network of thought.

In probably Krishnamurti's most famous speech* he says "I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally." which is possibly in conflict with the teachings of the Sutta Pitaka but in my opinion that is to miss the point.

*Dissolution Speech http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/about-kris ... speech.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Compatibility of Buddha and Krishnamurti

Post by Nicholas Weeks »

Krishnaji seemed to think that intensity of attention was all that was needed in his "pathless path". He was hostile (after 1922 or so) to any spiritual path, eight-fold, yoga, lam-rim etc. Any path that was outlined by traditional gurus or texts he would denigrate as a corrupting, distracting outside influence. Never mind virtues, merit-making etc. just increase ones attention....

So I do not see any compatibility of K. with Theravada or any path.
Good and evil have no fixed form. It's as easy to turn from doing bad to doing good as it is to flip over the hand from the back to the palm. It's simply up to us to do it. Master Hsuan Hua.
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Re: Compatibility of Buddha and Krishnamurti

Post by ancientbuddhism »

Will wrote:Krishnaji seemed to think that intensity of attention was all that was needed in his "pathless path". He was hostile (after 1922 or so) to any spiritual path, eight-fold, yoga, lam-rim etc. Any path that was outlined by traditional gurus or texts he would denigrate as a corrupting, distracting outside influence. Never mind virtues, merit-making etc. just increase ones attention....

So I do not see any compatibility of K. with Theravada or any path.
Indeed
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Re: Compatibility of Buddha and Krishnamurti

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Will wrote:Krishnaji seemed to think that intensity of attention was all that was needed in his "pathless path".
Did he ever explain the basis for his rejection of paths?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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Re: Compatibility of Buddha and Krishnamurti

Post by tiltbillings »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Will wrote:Krishnaji seemed to think that intensity of attention was all that was needed in his "pathless path".
Did he ever explain the basis for his rejection of paths?
Except the path he is offering?

The story is that he was supposedly to be presented as the "World Teacher" as sort of second coming and Maiterya and all of that, and was groomed by the Annie Besant crowd of the Theosophical Society, but he became disgusted by it all, by all the trappings of religion.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

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Re: Compatibility of Buddha and Krishnamurti

Post by vinasp »

Hi Retro, everyone,

From memory K said something like: "Total transformation does not require time."

It would seem to be a version of "sudden enlightenment."

Which is also found in the Sutta Pitaka eg: Parileyya Sutta SN 22.81

Regards, Vincent.
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