Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

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davcuts
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Post by davcuts »

flyingOx wrote:I am not declaring anything. I am just telling you my experience. Like I said, this has happened so fast. Just last week, I was raging with anger, hate, had arthritis, had asthma, hated life, was depressed, didn’t believe in anything other than myself, and then someone special offered The Wings to Awakening to me. I read it. I now have no arthritis, I can breathe like never before, I love all life, I am filled with contentment and peace, and I know for certain that I have seen all of my past lives, I have seen the other side where there is no death, and I have no craving for anything of this world. I am not bothered by loud noises, my neighbor who I once hated who burns stinking trash, the smell does not bother me, and I have nothing but love for him. I have no enemies, and I can only hope that the whole world can feel this blessed. I don’t know what you would call that, but that is my honest experience. I do not know all of the Buddhist terminology. I don’t know the religious protocol, but I do know that if just reading this book once does all of this for me, it must be the true way.
This is great. Last week you had all these problems but now you don't. The real test will come in a week or so when once again you might feel anger, depression, hate, have arthritis and so on. That will be the true test to see just how awakened you are. It's easy to feel blissed out when everything in life is great. Feeling blissed out when things go horribly wrong is not always easy to do. You have had a great experience, and it seems to have happened over night. That has me worried because things constantly change in samsara. If the problems you had prior come to life once again will you still feel awakened? Or will you give up on Dharma because it didn't live up to your expectations?
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fig tree
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Post by fig tree »

flyingOx wrote: If they notice me as a holy man, should I impart the Awakening to them as well with my good will?
There are all kinds of pitfalls to be aware of:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... html#ch4.4.
I'm not suggesting that you're at that stage, but there are some resemblances.

Fig Tree
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mikenz66
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Post by mikenz66 »

fig tree wrote: I'm not suggesting that you're at that stage, but there are some resemblances.
Speaking in general terms (not wanting to try to judge any particular case) I've heard several teachers mention that at that stage it is inevitable that the meditator is convinced that he/she is enlightened and that his/her teacher is too stupid to realise it...

The last of Steve Armstrong's series of talks about Sayadaw Mahasi's writings here:
http://www.audiodharma.org/talks/SteveArmstrong.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Refined Knowledge, Subtle Wisdom (5 of 5) "
and, as I recall, the talk "2008-08-23 Vipassana Jhanas 62:16" here: http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/170/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
address this issue.

Metta
Mike
flyingOx
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Post by flyingOx »

davcuts wrote:
flyingOx wrote:I am not declaring anything. I am just telling you my experience. Like I said, this has happened so fast. Just last week, I was raging with anger, hate, had arthritis, had asthma, hated life, was depressed, didn’t believe in anything other than myself, and then someone special offered The Wings to Awakening to me. I read it. I now have no arthritis, I can breathe like never before, I love all life, I am filled with contentment and peace, and I know for certain that I have seen all of my past lives, I have seen the other side where there is no death, and I have no craving for anything of this world. I am not bothered by loud noises, my neighbor who I once hated who burns stinking trash, the smell does not bother me, and I have nothing but love for him. I have no enemies, and I can only hope that the whole world can feel this blessed. I don’t know what you would call that, but that is my honest experience. I do not know all of the Buddhist terminology. I don’t know the religious protocol, but I do know that if just reading this book once does all of this for me, it must be the true way.
This is great. Last week you had all these problems but now you don't. The real test will come in a week or so when once again you might feel anger, depression, hate, have arthritis and so on. That will be the true test to see just how awakened you are. It's easy to feel blissed out when everything in life is great. Feeling blissed out when things go horribly wrong is not always easy to do. You have had a great experience, and it seems to have happened over night. That has me worried because things constantly change in samsara. If the problems you had prior come to life once again will you still feel awakened? Or will you give up on Dharma because it didn't live up to your expectations?
Even if I were to experience my old self all over again in vivid detail, even then it would not matter. I would arrive at this again the same way as I did it then. I'm not sure if all of you realize how extremely "bothersome" going to school full time with Calculus, Physics, Differential Equations, Product Development for Engineers, finding a new paradigm and way of life, having a whole campus full of teachers and friends noticing me as a completely different person, mentioning the peace that they feel when they are around me. Yet, nothing really bothering me anymore. I am quite serious and honest about that. I can tell that Kamma may have remnants to work out, but that doesn't bother me either. Anyway the point that I am making doesn't have anything to do with convincing you. It was about whether or not I should act on my inclinations of extending compassion publicly. I don't want the people who I know to think that I am avoiding them. I try to explain to them that it is all new, and that the best that I can do is offer them the Wings to Awakening to see if they can get the same results that I did. Also, I accidentally healed my mother. Or perhaps she took the healing faith that she noticed in my aura. All I know is that if things get tough, so what? Does it or will it ever really matter again? My experience came with that realization. That is why I am free, now. Why would that knowledge ever leave?
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
flyingOx
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Post by flyingOx »

mikenz66 wrote:
fig tree wrote: I'm not suggesting that you're at that stage, but there are some resemblances.
Speaking in general terms (not wanting to try to judge any particular case) I've heard several teachers mention that at that stage it is inevitable that the meditator is convinced that he/she is enlightened and that his/her teacher is too stupid to realise it...

The last of Steve Armstrong's series of talks about Sayadaw Mahasi's writings here:
http://www.audiodharma.org/talks/SteveArmstrong.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Refined Knowledge, Subtle Wisdom (5 of 5) "
and, as I recall, the talk "2008-08-23 Vipassana Jhanas 62:16" here: http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/170/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
address this issue.

Metta
Mike
And yet that doesn't matter either. It is a good list of meditation techniques is all that I can say. If rehashing what I clearly already remember going through, no matter how rappidly it seems, is what people think that I should do, oh well. I suppose they could come and chop my head off. But still, even that would not matter.

Peace to all.
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
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Fede
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Post by Fede »

(I think you'd find it might.....! :tongue: )
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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DNS
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Post by DNS »

Hi FlyingOx,

I assume you are talking about the factors of enlightenment and the book, Wings to Awakening by Thanissaro Bhikkhu?

What is your opinion of the nature of nibbana, after feeling that you have had some break-through and considering that you have read Thanissaro Bhikkhu's works? Have you read his other works, such as The Mind like fire Unbound?
flyingOx
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Post by flyingOx »

TheDhamma wrote:Hi FlyingOx,

I assume you are talking about the factors of enlightenment and the book, Wings to Awakening by Thanissaro Bhikkhu?

What is your opinion of the nature of nibbana, after feeling that you have had some break-through and considering that you have read Thanissaro Bhikkhu's works? Have you read his other works, such as The Mind like fire Unbound?
How many stars are in the sky of THIS UNIVERSE? Please give me an exact number, not a rough estimate based on the astral physics of others. LOL...No, just joking. The closest that I could come to discribing Nervana, and please forgive me for not using much Theravada spellings or metaphors if you can find it in your heart...but the closest that I could come to discribing the nature of Nibbana, as you say, would be in poetry, but still it would only be a rough estimate. You could still use it, though, if you would like.

Would you like me to break out into verse? :reading:
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
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Jechbi
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Post by Jechbi »

flyingOx wrote:Would you like me to break out into verse? :reading:
Yes, please! But do it HERE.
:clap:
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Post by Ceisiwr »

Hi

So it seems your saying you have realized nibbana, why then are you worried about what to do next?

If you are enlightened then i would like to ask you a question, since dependent origination is now clear to you could you explain it in detail here? There has been some debate as to how to interpret and understand it and any clarification would be helpful, particualy interested in sankhara and jati elements of it


Metta
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
flyingOx
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Post by flyingOx »

Jechbi wrote:
flyingOx wrote:Would you like me to break out into verse? :reading:
Yes, please! But do it HERE.
:clap:
Oh that is too funny! O.K. I will join...as soon as I quit laughing, study a little physics, and write something. Limericks are great.
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
flyingOx
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Post by flyingOx »

clw_uk wrote:Hi

So it seems your saying you have realized nibbana, why then are you worried about what to do next?

If you are enlightened then i would like to ask you a question, since dependent origination is now clear to you could you explain it in detail here? There has been some debate as to how to interpret and understand it and any clarification would be helpful, particualy interested in sankhara and jati elements of it


Metta
First of all, I do not debate. Second of all, it is not so much a worry as much as it is not wanting to look religious at a school that I will be going to for the next few semesters. I do not have time to sort through everyone's problems. They barely give enough time to do the assignments as it is. Third, I have already found the answer to my own question if you have been reading my words rather than trying to see what kind of debate you can coax me into.

Now without debating, :jedi: I will have to look into those words "sankhara and jati" and tell you what I think when I get the time to do so. Do realize that I am still in my body and am subject to linear earth time. LOL
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
flyingOx
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Post by flyingOx »

One other thing before I go on to completely devote the rest of my day to studying physics: A council of elders were sitting in a circle working out perceptive views with one another so to be able to communicate in a more clear, precise, and understandable way. Along comes a few others and someone new who just happened to be wandering around by himself walks through the village. He hears the late comers to the council talking about things that he is familiar with, so he joins the conversation by saying what he knows. One of the late comers to the council meeting said, “we don’t know you. Where did you come from? And why are you butting in where you don’t belong?” The wanderer said, “I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you. Did I say something the wrong way?” I ask you three questions:
First, why do the elders have a council when they could easily use their great wisdom to say whatever they needed to say perfectly clear for all to understand the first time that they heard it?
Second, who has the most noble attitude, the stranger, or the late comers to the elder’s council?
Third, why are they late?
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.
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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Post by Ngawang Drolma. »

Hi Flying Ox,

I think these words mean the following:

jati=birth
sankhara=volitional formations (conditioned mental processes)

What does your story mean? Who is the council and who is the wanderer?

:anjali:
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Post by Ceisiwr »

Hey
Second of all, it is not so much a worry as much as it is not wanting to look religious at a school that I will be going to for the next few semesters.
So you dont want (which is craving, something thats abandoned at nibbana)

to look religious (worrying about your self image, which is self view or conciet, which is another thing abandoned when reaching nibbana)

Third, I have already found the answer to my own question if you have been reading my words rather than trying to see what kind of debate you can coax me into.
Im not trying to coax you into a debate :smile: , im just trying to show you that care needs to be taken when assessing ones progress along the path, a liberating experience (which im sure you have had) is not nescicarily THE liberation. Im not down playing your experience, but dont be fooled into thinking your enlightened when you might not be, this just leads to more dukkha (suffering)
sankhara and jati
Sankhara has many meanings, from Ajahn Buddhadasa
I would like to take this opportunity to discuss all the meanings of the term "sankhara." This is a very common and important word in the Pali scriptures, but many people have problems with it due to its different uses and meanings. Languages are like that, uncertain and seemingly unreliable. The single word "sankhara" can mean "conditioner," the cause that conditions; it can mean "condition," the result of the action of conditioning; and it can mean "'conditioning," the activity or process of conditioning. We use the same word for the subject of the conditioning, "the concocter," as well as the object, "the concoction." We even use it for the activity, "the concocting," itself. This may be a bit confusing for you, so please remember that "sankhara" has three meanings. The correct meaning depends on the context. This knowledge will be valuable in your further studies.
jati means birth

Metta
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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