I apologize if I gave the impression of belittling dana practice. It is certainly an important part of the Path.Nadi wrote:That is true. However, I was responding to the OP's concern expressed here:Peter wrote:I think we need to keep in mind that the path is not only about meditation. Dana is an integral part of the teachings and should be practiced as such.So we can see the OP is referring to a particular type of practitioner, a particular type of practice.seanandrews wrote:I have read online that Theravada Buddhism does not generally accept lay practitioners because of the amount of time needed to devote to meditation and/or that only a monk can attain nirvana
I don't think we should belittle the part that dana plays in the Buddha's teachings.
Is It Possible to Be a Lay Theravada Buddhist?
Re: Is It Possible to Be a Lay Theravada Buddhist?
- Peter
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
- Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Is It Possible to Be a Lay Theravada Buddhist?
Dhammapadaseanandrews wrote:My local library system does not carry Bhikkhu Bodhi's IN THE BUDDHA'S WORDS, but it does carry THE CONNECTED DISCOURSES OF THE BUDDHA and THE MIDDLE LENGTH DISCOURSES OF THE BUDDHA. Would you recommend either of those, or should I just buy IN THE BUDDHA'S WORDS?
Can anyone recommend a free, downloadable ebook or iPod Touch/iPhone Application that would be a good place to start? Or Podcast?
The Pali Canon
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Re: Is It Possible to Be a Lay Theravada Buddhist?
Thanks. I have the Dhammapada. The Pali Canon -- that would be pretty expensive, wouldn't it?
Re: Is It Possible to Be a Lay Theravada Buddhist?
hi sean, to own the whole canon would be expensive yes
i would strongly advise you however to get as much of the sutta nikaya as you can, these will greatly help your study
the translations available
Majjhima Nikaya
Samyutta Nikaya
Digha Nikaya
http://www.amazon.com/Middle-Length-Dis ... 086171072X" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Anguttara Nikaya is in the process of being translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi and should be out sometime in the near future
for all the rest that isnt available to buy you can use http://www.accesstoinsight.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (these have the Nikayas i just mentioned but they dont have all of the suttas and the translations in the print books are better IMO)
Metta
i would strongly advise you however to get as much of the sutta nikaya as you can, these will greatly help your study
the translations available
Majjhima Nikaya
Samyutta Nikaya
Digha Nikaya
http://www.amazon.com/Middle-Length-Dis ... 086171072X" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Anguttara Nikaya is in the process of being translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi and should be out sometime in the near future
for all the rest that isnt available to buy you can use http://www.accesstoinsight.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (these have the Nikayas i just mentioned but they dont have all of the suttas and the translations in the print books are better IMO)
Metta
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
- Ngawang Drolma.
- Posts: 805
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:38 pm
Re: Is It Possible to Be a Lay Theravada Buddhist?
Craig, what's your opinion on this? I've never heard of the author. The price is good and I could use something concise.
Re: Is It Possible to Be a Lay Theravada Buddhist?
Hi Drolma
Ive never heard of it but i found a reference to it here
right at the bottom of the page
As i said ive never heard of it but it sounds quite useful, quite cheap as well
Metta
Ive never heard of it but i found a reference to it here
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;An Analysis of the Pali Canon, Russell Webb, ed. (Kandy: Buddhist Publication Society, 1975). An indispensable "roadmap" and outline of the Pali canon. Contains an excellent index listing suttas by name.
right at the bottom of the page
As i said ive never heard of it but it sounds quite useful, quite cheap as well
Metta
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
- Ngawang Drolma.
- Posts: 805
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:38 pm
Re: Is It Possible to Be a Lay Theravada Buddhist?
In the Buddha's words is inexpensive and in my opinion gives an excellent overview of the Buddha's teachings, since the selected Suttas are arranged into an exposition of the Buddh'as teachings, ranging from straightforward advice about living a good life to complex matters such as dependent origination.seanandrews wrote:My local library system does not carry Bhikkhu Bodhi's IN THE BUDDHA'S WORDS, but it does carry THE CONNECTED DISCOURSES OF THE BUDDHA and THE MIDDLE LENGTH DISCOURSES OF THE BUDDHA. Would you recommend either of those, or should I just buy IN THE BUDDHA'S WORDS?
You can read the first chapter as a PDF and read a very useful review here:
http://wisdompubs.org/Pages/display.las ... n=&image=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'd read that then start on Bhikkhu Bodhi's talks on the Majjhima Nikaya. Actually, that's what I did do...
Mike
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Re: Is It Possible to Be a Lay Theravada Buddhist?
Why is giving up a householder life needed to be fully enlightened? I know you spoke of attachment to house, family, etc. But I think it would not be wholesome to just get up and leave your family especially if you struggle financially. Why would it matter? If your enlightened why couldnt you still work as a householder and just be enlightened not attached to work and other such things?It is also possible for a lay disciple to become enlightened. As Bhikkhu Bodhi notes, "The Suttas and commentaries do record a few cases of lay disciples attaining the final goal of Nibbana. However, such disciples either attain Arahantship on the brink of death or enter the monastic order soon after their attainment. They do not continue to dwell at home as Arahant householders, for dwelling at home is incompatible with the state of one who has severed all craving."[35]
35. # ^ Bhikkhu Bodhi,In the Buddha's Words, Wisdom Publications 2005; page 376
My comments:
One may be a householder all the way up to becoming an Arahant, it just that after that [full] enlightenment is attained, the person will apparently want or need to ordain.
So no need to feel defeated or to not try, there is the opportunity for full enlightenment, even as a lay follower.
Thanks
"It was only when I went to China in 1954-55 that I actually studied Marxist ideology and learned the history of the Chinese revolution. Once I understood Marxism, my attitude changed completely. I was so attracted to Marxism, I even expressed my wish to become a Communist Party member."-Dalai Lama (Time Magazine 1999)
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/vegi.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Meat eating and vegetarianism)
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/vegi.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Meat eating and vegetarianism)
Re: Is It Possible to Be a Lay Theravada Buddhist?
I think that the requirement to ordain is an interpretation from the Commentaries. It seems to have some basis in suttas such as MN 73 http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pit ... ta-e1.html where the Buddha talks about lay disciples who are stream enterers, once returners and non-returners, but not arahants:
Here he speaks of arahant bhikkhus and bhikkhunis:
Mike
Here he speaks of arahant bhikkhus and bhikkhunis:
But for lay people the highest mentioned is non-returner:`Good, Gotama, wait! Let alone bhikkhus. Is there a single bhikkhuni a disciple of Gotama, who has destroyed desires has released the mind from desires and released through wisdom, here and now, have realised?' `Vaccha, not one, not one hundred, not two hundred, not three hundred, not four hundred, not five hundred. There are many, more bhikkhunis, disciples of mine, who have destroyed desires, the mind released from desires and released through wisdom, here and now realising abide'.
`Good, Gotama, wait! Other than bhikkhus, and bhikkhunis. Is there a single lay disciple of Gotama, who wearing white clothes had led the holy life, has destroyed the five lower bonds to the sensual world, and is born spontaneously, not to proceed?' `Vaccha, not one, not one hundred, not two hundred, not three hundred, not four hundred, not five hundred. There are many more lay disciples of mine, who have destroyed the five lower bonds to the sensual world, and born spontaneously would not proceed,'
Mike
Re: Is It Possible to Be a Lay Theravada Buddhist?
Hi Mike
What is the definition of a monk?
To call oneself a monk, should he be ordained and follow the 228 rules?
What is the real road block for the lay person for not realising Arahantship?
What is the definition of a monk?
To call oneself a monk, should he be ordained and follow the 228 rules?
What is the real road block for the lay person for not realising Arahantship?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
- m12_shakes
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- Location: England
Re: Is It Possible to Be a Lay Theravada Buddhist?
Also, further to the OP question (apologies for the slight hijack), but how does one find the "middle path" when relating to attachment ?
I have to work for a living, so on the grand scheme of things, I am personally attached to my job, as I need a house and money live on.
Now how do I find a balance on buying things that are necessary and "over indulging" on luxuries? I believe you get what you pay for, and I believe "you buy cheap, you buy twice". It's a simple rule I use on just about most things, clothes, cars etc.
For example, I am now in the market to replace my current car (it's the same care I've had for a number of years, and it's now giving me issues), however I'm now in a position to buy something far more reliable, i.e. a decent German saloon (sedan for my US buddies), which arguably would be better a better quality car, and less hassle in the long run. Would that be classed as necessary or over indulging?
Same with clothes, I would much rather purchase a decent tailored suit from a reputable London tailor, which would fit me vastly better and last me far longer than any off-the-peg suit would.
Even later on in life when I have children, I would like to send them to private school and give them all the opportunities to reach their educational potential, is that necessary or a luxury?
Where does one draw the line?
I have to work for a living, so on the grand scheme of things, I am personally attached to my job, as I need a house and money live on.
Now how do I find a balance on buying things that are necessary and "over indulging" on luxuries? I believe you get what you pay for, and I believe "you buy cheap, you buy twice". It's a simple rule I use on just about most things, clothes, cars etc.
For example, I am now in the market to replace my current car (it's the same care I've had for a number of years, and it's now giving me issues), however I'm now in a position to buy something far more reliable, i.e. a decent German saloon (sedan for my US buddies), which arguably would be better a better quality car, and less hassle in the long run. Would that be classed as necessary or over indulging?
Same with clothes, I would much rather purchase a decent tailored suit from a reputable London tailor, which would fit me vastly better and last me far longer than any off-the-peg suit would.
Even later on in life when I have children, I would like to send them to private school and give them all the opportunities to reach their educational potential, is that necessary or a luxury?
Where does one draw the line?
Kindest regards,
m12
m12
Re: Is It Possible to Be a Lay Theravada Buddhist?
Dear m12,
I also agree with the "you get what you pay for" rule. It sounds like your intentions are pure. You aren't buying a nice car or suit to impress people but because they are functional and durable. And who wouldn't want to send their kids to a nice school if they could afford it? I see no reason not to spend your money on quality things for the right reasons.
Where one draws the line is where one draws the line.
That's just one opinion.
I also agree with the "you get what you pay for" rule. It sounds like your intentions are pure. You aren't buying a nice car or suit to impress people but because they are functional and durable. And who wouldn't want to send their kids to a nice school if they could afford it? I see no reason not to spend your money on quality things for the right reasons.
Where one draws the line is where one draws the line.
That's just one opinion.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Re: Is It Possible to Be a Lay Theravada Buddhist?
i think mkoll is correct in saying you get what you pay for.
i know one man in India who is to all intensive purposes an 'ascetic' ( eats one meal a day, practices yoga and meditation for 4 hours, wears robes) but has an expensive Japanese watch.
he told me many people ridiculed him for having a fancy watch instead of a cheap local made one. he then points out that his friends have replaced their watches many times in the twenty years that he has had this one watch, so in total he has saved much by the original investment.
you can use the things of this world but its how you view them that causes the attachment
i know one man in India who is to all intensive purposes an 'ascetic' ( eats one meal a day, practices yoga and meditation for 4 hours, wears robes) but has an expensive Japanese watch.
he told me many people ridiculed him for having a fancy watch instead of a cheap local made one. he then points out that his friends have replaced their watches many times in the twenty years that he has had this one watch, so in total he has saved much by the original investment.
you can use the things of this world but its how you view them that causes the attachment
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......
Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......
Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
- m12_shakes
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- Location: England
Re: Is It Possible to Be a Lay Theravada Buddhist?
Thank you both, what you both said does make sense. I hope I can see the proverbial line when it's in front of me.
Kindest regards,
m12
m12