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the great vegetarian debate - Page 85 - Dhamma Wheel

the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:22 pm

What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:42 pm

Fungi: Plant neurobiological and vascular distribution network, and The Very First Internet:

http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_stamets_o ... world.html
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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Ron-The-Elder
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Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:23 pm

The world from the plant's viewpoint:

http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_pollan ... _view.html
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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Fede
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Fede » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:08 pm

I'm so sorry....I thought the name 'Pollan' was a joke.....

It's not.....
Weirdly appropriate, then........
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:28 am

What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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Ron-The-Elder
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Location: Concord, New Hampshire, U.S.A.

Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:32 am

Globe Bio: All about plants. (Good primer for the inexperienced and ignorant.)

http://www.globio.org/glossopedia/artic ... ?art_id=30
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

Ervin
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ervin » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:18 am

Peace. I am guessing that plant base food doesn't feel pain when eaten. I suppose plants don't have a nervous system to process pain. Wouldn't it be like cuting your nails or hair when we do it to fruits, vegetables, nuts, etc. Plants don't have brains also to process pain.

I would say that it would mean that we are more compassionate if we where vegan for the reasons I mentioned. Yet sometimes I think it might be ok to eat meat. I suppose the monotheistic teachings say that you can eat animals.

So what do you think? Is it more compassionate to be vegan?

And if and or since you don't believe in monotheism where do you get moral authority from to eat animals and their products?

Thanks

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David N. Snyder
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:25 am

Image




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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:10 pm

What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.

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daverupa
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby daverupa » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:48 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:48 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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David N. Snyder
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:56 pm

Also, one rule is part of many of the Patimokkha. The other regarding not killing living beings (humans and animals) is part of the First Precept of the Five Precepts.

Panatipata veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami

(I undertake the precept to refrain from killing living creatures.)

All precepts and rules are important, but the Five Precepts are the core, which apply to lay and ordained alike.
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Cittasanto
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:04 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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daverupa
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby daverupa » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:51 am

, by Bhante Sujato

"There is a wider problem, and I think the discussions of the issue among Buddhists generally avoid this. And the wider issue is this: meat eating is clearly harmful. That harm is a direct but unintended consequence of eating meat. Since there is no intention to cause harm, eating meat is not bad kamma. There are therefore two logical possibilities: eating meat is ethical; or kamma is not a complete account of ethics.

"I am suggesting that, while kamma deals with the personal, ethics includes both the personal and the environmental.

"As well as broadening ethics in this way, I would suggest we should deepen it. Ethics is not just what is allowable. Sure, you can argue that eating meat is allowable. You can get away with it. That doesn’t mean that it’s a good thing. What if we ask, not what can I get away with, but what can I aspire to?"

:reading:

:thinking:

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Ben
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ben » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:53 am

That is excellent, thank you Dave!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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mikenz66
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:59 am


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ancientbuddhism
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby ancientbuddhism » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:04 am

I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)


chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby chownah » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:37 am

I guess the Buddha could have aspired to not eating meat.
I know he ate whatever he was offered but he could have taught people that he was aspiring to not eat meat in which case I'm pretty sure they mostly wouldn't have given him any.
Some people say that he did not teach people this because it would alienate too many of them and drive them away from the Dhamma.....so to these same people I ask "have people changed or even today will teaching people to not eat meat still drive them away from the Dhamma?"....
chownah

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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:59 pm


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beeblebrox
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby beeblebrox » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:46 pm

In the above translation, I read "engage in a business" as something that involves both seller and the buyer. Is that translator's intention... or just my way of reading it? :anjali:


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