Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby MMK23 » Thu May 07, 2009 9:32 pm

flyingOx wrote:I see.


flyingOx, from what I've learnt from the 21st century, you aren't enlightened. Here's why:

* you haven't written a bestselling book,
* you haven't sold a revolutionary new doctrine,
* you don't have a web page and a fawning cyber community,
* you haven't mastered the art of contrived ineffability,
* your avatar "flyingOx" is not very auspicious,
* you haven't been interviewed by ANY of the Buddhist magazines or tv shows.
* you haven't said, "a circle has no beginning" ONCE,
* you haven't incorporated all of the other religions into a single grand megabuddhism,
* you haven't made a single buck from the dhamma (or have you?),

I bet you don't even have a single statue of the Buddha!

Best wishes to you my friend, you seem like you would be a really charming person to meet :hug:
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby flyingOx » Thu May 07, 2009 9:39 pm

MMK23 wrote:
flyingOx wrote:I see.


flyingOx, from what I've learnt from the 21st century, you aren't enlightened. Here's why:

* you haven't written a bestselling book,
* you haven't sold a revolutionary new doctrine,
* you don't have a web page and a fawning cyber community,
* you haven't mastered the art of contrived ineffability,
* your avatar "flyingOx" is not very auspicious,
* you haven't been interviewed by ANY of the Buddhist magazines or tv shows.
* you haven't said, "a circle has no beginning" ONCE,
* you haven't incorporated all of the other religions into a single grand megabuddhism,
* you haven't made a single buck from the dhamma (or have you?),

I bet you don't even have a single statue of the Buddha!

Best wishes to you my friend, you seem like you would be a really charming person to meet :hug:


Wow! You are a mind reader! Cool! You are right, I have no Buddha statue. :buddha1: There! I'm well on my way, now. LOL
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby pink_trike » Thu May 07, 2009 9:39 pm

He has, however, said some things that give some of us cause for concern about his well-being . Many of us here hope he shares his experience with a qualified Dharma teacher. If the sensations persist, I agree with a previous poster that seeking professional mental health care advise would be a wise caution.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu May 07, 2009 9:42 pm

MMK23 wrote:flyingOx, from what I've learnt from the 21st century, you aren't enlightened. Here's why:

* you haven't written a bestselling book,
* you haven't sold a revolutionary new doctrine,
* you don't have a web page and a fawning cyber community,
* you haven't mastered the art of contrived ineffability,
* your avatar "flyingOx" is not very auspicious,
* you haven't been interviewed by ANY of the Buddhist magazines or tv shows.
* you haven't said, "a circle has no beginning" ONCE,
* you haven't incorporated all of the other religions into a single grand megabuddhism,
* you haven't made a single buck from the dhamma (or have you?),

Hi MMK23,

I know you are being sarcastic and humorous, but Ajahn Chah, Shabkar, and to a certain extent, S. N. Goenka could fit all of the above and they are pretty realized beings or at least way up there. And of course there are many more who also never wrote a Dhamma book, never made money off the Dhamma/Dharma, but were still highly realized people.
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby flyingOx » Thu May 07, 2009 9:48 pm

pink_trike wrote:He has, however, said some things that give some of us cause for concern about his well-being . Many of us here hope he shares his experience with a qualified Dharma teacher. If the sensations persist, I agree with a previous poster that seeking professional mental health care advise would be a wise caution.


LOL Like what? What have I said that causes concern?
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby flyingOx » Thu May 07, 2009 9:49 pm

TheDhamma wrote:
MMK23 wrote:flyingOx, from what I've learnt from the 21st century, you aren't enlightened. Here's why:

* you haven't written a bestselling book,
* you haven't sold a revolutionary new doctrine,
* you don't have a web page and a fawning cyber community,
* you haven't mastered the art of contrived ineffability,
* your avatar "flyingOx" is not very auspicious,
* you haven't been interviewed by ANY of the Buddhist magazines or tv shows.
* you haven't said, "a circle has no beginning" ONCE,
* you haven't incorporated all of the other religions into a single grand megabuddhism,
* you haven't made a single buck from the dhamma (or have you?),

Hi MMK23,

I know you are being sarcastic and humorous, but Ajahn Chah, Shabkar, and to a certain extent, S. N. Goenka could fit all of the above and they are pretty realized beings or at least way up there. And of course there are many more who also never wrote a Dhamma book, never made money off the Dhamma/Dharma, but were still highly realized people.


Just not someone who read Wings to Awakening and became awakened, right? LOL
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu May 07, 2009 10:28 pm

flyingOx wrote:Just not someone who read Wings to Awakening and became awakened, right? LOL

Why not? I suppose it could happen. But 'could happen' does not necessarily mean it 'did happen.' That is why many here have suggested consulting a teacher.

It is good you are focusing on your studies. After they are finished, when you have time, you could check out some other teachers, attend a retreat, read some more, including Thanissaro Bhikkhu and some others.
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby MMK23 » Thu May 07, 2009 10:34 pm

TheDhamma wrote:Hi MMK23,


Hi TheDhamma (until now that seemed an unlikely sentence!) I can't find a wave smiley with my useless eyes, so I'll have to settle for :thumbsup:

I know you are being sarcastic and humorous, but Ajahn Chah, Shabkar, and to a certain extent, S. N. Goenka could fit all of the above and they are pretty realized beings or at least way up there. And of course there are many more who also never wrote a Dhamma book, never made money off the Dhamma/Dharma, but were still highly realized people.


Thanks for sort-of appreciating my humour :-) I don't know who Shabkar is, but I'll take your word for it. Your point is well taken. It's a funny world that we live in, isn't it? It seems there's nothing that mass capitalisation/consumption can't touch and anything that is successful in any way seems inevitable to be recast as a trinket in the marketplace.

flyingOx wrote:Just not someone who read Wings to Awakening and became awakened, right? LOL


You would know that if you went to more retreats, flyingOx! Anyway, I think folks here seem to find your story implausible, and your mental health questionable :-) In situations like this people won't want to feel like they're encouraging you. It's unlikely that you'll get much more attention on this matter, I expect. Anyway, I've told you my criteria for enlightenment, so until I see at least a bestselling book, if not a flashy webpage, I'm totally unconvinced. But if you are looking to get a following, you'll need to learn use the word "suchness"* in sentences :smile:

WIth love,

MMK23

* ps I realise there are perfectly sensible ways to use the word "suchness", no offense is intended to anyone who uses it :bow:
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby Cittasanto » Thu May 07, 2009 10:49 pm

LOL I like but agree allot of people could fall into this list

MMK23 wrote:
flyingOx wrote:I see.


flyingOx, from what I've learnt from the 21st century, you aren't enlightened. Here's why:

* you haven't written a bestselling book,
* you haven't sold a revolutionary new doctrine,
* you don't have a web page and a fawning cyber community,
* you haven't mastered the art of contrived ineffability,
* your avatar "flyingOx" is not very auspicious,
* you haven't been interviewed by ANY of the Buddhist magazines or tv shows.
* you haven't said, "a circle has no beginning" ONCE,
* you haven't incorporated all of the other religions into a single grand megabuddhism,
* you haven't made a single buck from the dhamma (or have you?),

I bet you don't even have a single statue of the Buddha!

Best wishes to you my friend, you seem like you would be a really charming person to meet :hug:
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby Tex » Fri May 08, 2009 12:48 am

flyingOx wrote:
pink_trike wrote:He has, however, said some things that give some of us cause for concern about his well-being . Many of us here hope he shares his experience with a qualified Dharma teacher. If the sensations persist, I agree with a previous poster that seeking professional mental health care advise would be a wise caution.


LOL Like what? What have I said that causes concern?


Not to speak for pink_trike, but I had similar concerns so I'll share mine.

You asked what you've said that causes concern -- You have referred several times to your school workload, it sounds as if you're under tremendous stress. And you seem to sincerely believe that you've achieved an instant state of enlightenment and gained the ability to heal people with one touch, and you're now feeling concerned about how to live in the world after your "awakening" without people trying to follow you or worship you. These are all beliefs and feelings that a therapist might want to learn more about.

Disclaimer: I only have a bachelor's in psychology -- I am not a licensed therapist. But if a friend of mine came to me saying these same things I would be tempted to recommend that he talk to one. It certainly couldn't hurt, whether my friend was enlightened or not.

I don't mean to sound harsh, I wish you all the best.
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby flyingOx » Fri May 08, 2009 2:53 am

Tex wrote:
flyingOx wrote:
pink_trike wrote:He has, however, said some things that give some of us cause for concern about his well-being . Many of us here hope he shares his experience with a qualified Dharma teacher. If the sensations persist, I agree with a previous poster that seeking professional mental health care advise would be a wise caution.


LOL Like what? What have I said that causes concern?


Not to speak for pink_trike, but I had similar concerns so I'll share mine.

You asked what you've said that causes concern -- You have referred several times to your school workload, it sounds as if you're under tremendous stress. And you seem to sincerely believe that you've achieved an instant state of enlightenment and gained the ability to heal people with one touch, and you're now feeling concerned about how to live in the world after your "awakening" without people trying to follow you or worship you. These are all beliefs and feelings that a therapist might want to learn more about.

Disclaimer: I only have a bachelor's in psychology -- I am not a licensed therapist. But if a friend of mine came to me saying these same things I would be tempted to recommend that he talk to one. It certainly couldn't hurt, whether my friend was enlightened or not.

I don't mean to sound harsh, I wish you all the best.


Well, I really do appreciate the concern and good will, but I am fine, really. Seriously, all stress has ended. I can't imagine how going to a shrink would sound...Shrink: "so what seems to be the problem?" flyingOx: "nothing" shrink: "then why are you hear" flyingOx: "because I have no stress, am perfectly happy, my mother is no longer sick, and I can concentrate on my school work like never before." shrink: "Well, maybe you are crazy, then. Are you a stalker?" LOL
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby Mexicali » Fri May 08, 2009 3:56 am

Mention to the shrink that you've come to believe that you've been universally awakened and have magic healing powers and I think you'll get a different answer.

I'm really not trying to be a jerk here but you clearly need to talk to somebody. I have seen this happen before in real life and it's never ended well.
"We do not embrace reason at the expense of emotion. We embrace it at the expense of self-deception."
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby pink_trike » Fri May 08, 2009 5:09 am

I'm not convinced that you (flyingOx) aren't a troll who is baiting us with an imaginative story for sport.

But if not, then I agree with Mexicali - much of what you wrote is cause for concern (especially your certainty) and I really sat up and took note when I read that you claim that you now can heal people by touching them, and that you're concerned that people will worship you (if you aren't a troll, then this is a fairly obvious projection of a belief that you should be worshipped). That, coupled with your claim that you will wander in the wilderness with only the clothes on your back triggered real concern (dangerous superhuman/martyr fantasy). Having been both a psychotherapist and a seasoned wilderness wanderer - both claims are cause for me to hope that you'll ground this mind-experience with feedback from a qualified Dharma teacher, or seek professional mental health care advice.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby flyingOx » Fri May 08, 2009 4:01 pm

This is a place where spiritual people gather. Saying things in spiritual ways are what I do when around other spiritual people. Why wouldn't I? If I were around a shrink, I would speak as the world speaks. Around spiritual people I speak like spiritual people. The healing thing, like I said was only with my mother at the same time that I was healing myself. If you think that that is a cause for concern, then I feel sorry for YOU. And with people who notice me as being enlightened, it is only my close friends at school. Now, I would not and do not come up to them and act like their spiritual leader. My concern in posting this was hopefully to be able to talk to others who have gone through what I am going through. I had the impression that if one followed exactly what the Buddha taught, then all Buddhists would experience what I am experiencing. Perhaps I was wrong, or perhaps...well, I won't go there.

Also, as far as going on a survival expedition, with meditation in mind, I am already an experienced survivalist in the woods. I have been doing that all my life. I also have been studying the spiritual texts of all other faiths as well. However, it was not until I got to Buddhism that I was awakened, and that is as far as I am going to say about this subject anymore. I'm sorry that you don't get it. Truly, I am.

Peace to all.
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby pink_trike » Fri May 08, 2009 4:52 pm

I don't think you'll find much support here for your "awakening" experience. Many of us in our explorations of the mind have visited mental realms where we thought we "got it" fully, only to see "it" fade away. The bliss realms of the mind are illusory and very seductive. Your experience is actually pretty ordinary in this respect. The real challenge is to not get sucked into the blissful "enlightenment" charade that the ego is serving up - it's just more mental vomit. Noting it, and then bringing the awareness back to the breath is often a good antidote. And sometimes the mind will run with it too far - in this case professional help may be required, particularly if you don't have access to an experienced Dharma teacher.

I, and I'm sure others here, invite you to hang around, listen, and ask questions. Best wishes to you...but watch out for those piles of "spiritual" on the path - it's difficult to get rid of that "spiritual" stink once we slip and slide in it. :anjali:
Last edited by pink_trike on Fri May 08, 2009 10:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby Mexicali » Fri May 08, 2009 5:32 pm

The Buddha specifically rejected what most people consider the "spiritual", essentially saying that if one finds a different "all" than the one that exists, it didn't make any sense. The world has enough "spiritual" jive talk, it means nothing to "speak as spiritual people". You are either having a laugh or sick. If it's the former I'm not especially bothered, but if the latter, you really need to talk to people who are going to be honest with you. The fact that your first instinct was to run to a message board to proclaim your enlightenment tells me you don't have it. Your belief that you are developing extraordinary powers and worrying that people will start worshiping you tells me that you have a possible narcissistic personality disorder. Sorry to play armchair shrink, but it's quite blatant. If you're a troll, whatever. If you're not, I urge you for the sake of yourself and others you might misguide, talk to both a good dhamma teacher and a mental health professional.
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby Cittasanto » Fri May 08, 2009 6:20 pm

Mexicali wrote:The Buddha specifically rejected what most people consider the "spiritual", essentially saying that if one finds a different "all" than the one that exists, it didn't make any sense. The world has enough "spiritual" jive talk, it means nothing to "speak as spiritual people". You are either having a laugh or sick. If it's the former I'm not especially bothered, but if the latter, you really need to talk to people who are going to be honest with you. The fact that your first instinct was to run to a message board to proclaim your enlightenment tells me you don't have it. Your belief that you are developing extraordinary powers and worrying that people will start worshiping you tells me that you have a possible narcissistic personality disorder. Sorry to play armchair shrink, but it's quite blatant. If you're a troll, whatever. If you're not, I urge you for the sake of yourself and others you might misguide, talk to both a good dhamma teacher and a mental health professional.


I think it is the having a laugh option.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby adosa » Thu May 14, 2009 2:06 am

I will say, as an aside, that the compassion, concern, and wisdom displayed in this thread is heart-warming..... and I hope, Flying Ox, encouragement for you to heed the advice.

adosa
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Re: Yikes! People are noticing the change in me.

Postby flyingOx » Thu May 14, 2009 9:22 pm

Mexicali wrote:The Buddha specifically rejected what most people consider the "spiritual", essentially saying that if one finds a different "all" than the one that exists, it didn't make any sense. The world has enough "spiritual" jive talk, it means nothing to "speak as spiritual people". You are either having a laugh or sick. If it's the former I'm not especially bothered, but if the latter, you really need to talk to people who are going to be honest with you. The fact that your first instinct was to run to a message board to proclaim your enlightenment tells me you don't have it. Your belief that you are developing extraordinary powers and worrying that people will start worshiping you tells me that you have a possible narcissistic personality disorder. Sorry to play armchair shrink, but it's quite blatant. If you're a troll, whatever. If you're not, I urge you for the sake of yourself and others you might misguide, talk to both a good dhamma teacher and a mental health professional.


I used to be narcissistic, but not anymore. I used to be very mean, hateful, and angry, but not anymore. I guess that is why it seems to be getting so much attention. I'm a different person, and it is obvious to everyone. As far as posting something on a message board goes, who cares and what difference does it make what other people reading things on the internet think?

Also, apparently, you don't know the Buddha's words very well. He did say that there really was the deathless, and that upon finding it, some develop powers, unless you don't believe every word that he said, which is alright, I suppose. I just happen to be someone who believed everything that he said. Sorry if that bothers you.

People tend to be followers in this world. They like people to worship. That is why there are so many rock stars, movie stars, and religious people who like to get up in the spot light. I'm not one of those kinds of people. I don't like spot lights. I just want to not return to this plane of existance anymore. I also wonder why you think it is necessary to find a good dhamma teacher. Do you not think that I can understand the dhamma on my own? Do you think that I need a bunch of rituals to get anywhere, spiritually? And why do you have such an aversion towards spiritual things?
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