Two parts to this question:
Is it OK to bow ( I mean on your knees, head to floor prostration) to lay Dhamma teachers and is it OK for lay teachers to accept , and therefore encourage, such action?
Bowing to lay teachers
- Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers
I suspect that for most lay teachers a simple "thank-you" would be appropriate.pilgrim wrote:Two parts to this question:
Is it OK to bow ( I mean on your knees, head to floor prostration) to lay Dhamma teachers and is it OK for lay teachers to accept , and therefore encourage, such action?
Spiny
Re: Bowing to lay teachers
If a disciple wants to express his gratitude towards the teacher, it is perfectly ok.pilgrim wrote:Two parts to this question:
Is it OK to bow ( I mean on your knees, head to floor prostration) to lay Dhamma teachers and is it OK for lay teachers to accept , and therefore encourage, such action?
But it shouldn't become a ritual.
If one does not feel gratitude one should not bow.
- Cittasanto
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers
Some people don't like it!
some may appreciate it!
Bowing is a beautiful gesture, one of humility, humbling oneself to the dhamma (not the person) is always a positive move, even if one doesn't want to.
I have found forcing myself to bow toward someone I really didn't want to at the time quite lightening, almost a putting down the grudge/burden so to speak.
but some may find it inappropriate, others may not.
some may appreciate it!
Bowing is a beautiful gesture, one of humility, humbling oneself to the dhamma (not the person) is always a positive move, even if one doesn't want to.
I have found forcing myself to bow toward someone I really didn't want to at the time quite lightening, almost a putting down the grudge/burden so to speak.
but some may find it inappropriate, others may not.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: Bowing to lay teachers
Closely observe the teacher first. If we bow to someone who doesn't seems to have transcended pride or arrogance, the act could only be a further hindrance to his/her progress, and thus, a big disservice to the teacher..
- Cittasanto
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... it=Arahant" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
please read this thread.
outward appearance can be deceptive, if one bows it should be for oneself, and if pride... does spring up in the teacher it may just be as helpful as it allows the teacher to see the presence of such states.
please read this thread.
outward appearance can be deceptive, if one bows it should be for oneself, and if pride... does spring up in the teacher it may just be as helpful as it allows the teacher to see the presence of such states.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: Bowing to lay teachers
"and if pride... does spring up in the teacher it may just be as helpful as it allows the teacher to see the presence of such states."
While we certainly wish that to be the case, we need to consider the other possibilities. One's bowing should be for oneself, but if it could benefit others, that's even better. So imho, closely observe the teacher first..
While we certainly wish that to be the case, we need to consider the other possibilities. One's bowing should be for oneself, but if it could benefit others, that's even better. So imho, closely observe the teacher first..
- Goofaholix
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers
I've never seen or heard of anyone bowing to lay teachers.pilgrim wrote:Two parts to this question:
Is it OK to bow ( I mean on your knees, head to floor prostration) to lay Dhamma teachers and is it OK for lay teachers to accept , and therefore encourage, such action?
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
Re: Bowing to lay teachers
For instance, in the Goenka tradition many students do that.Goofaholix wrote: I've never seen or heard of anyone bowing to lay teachers.
- Goofaholix
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers
Are you talking about where Goenka is present in person rather than on DVD? If not then I'm not sure bowing towards the front of the room at the end of a meditation session is what we are talking about. Also is a single lower back stretch really the same in the same league as the 5 pointed triple theravadin bow that we do to monks and alters.David2 wrote:For instance, in the Goenka tradition many students do that.Goofaholix wrote: I've never seen or heard of anyone bowing to lay teachers.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
Re: Bowing to lay teachers
I would like to quote Godwin samararatne, a well known meditation teacher.
'Dont call me teacher, consider me a peer who is also learning the dhamma
together with you'
'Dont call me teacher, consider me a peer who is also learning the dhamma
together with you'
Re: Bowing to lay teachers
Does Goenka's students bow to him ?
Re: Bowing to lay teachers
Yes, to express gratitude and respect.pilgrim wrote:Does Goenka's students bow to him ?
kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: Bowing to lay teachers
I guess it is uncommon but can understand for someone of Goenka;s stature.Ben wrote:Yes, to express gratitude and respect.pilgrim wrote:Does Goenka's students bow to him ?
kind regards,
Ben
To be clear, I'm referring to on your knees, head to floor bow ( aka the 5 point prostration). The reason I'm asking is that I know of a lay teacher who "is being bowed to" and just want to know if there is a precedent. So I guess it is not inappropriate.
Re: Bowing to lay teachers
Where I have seen that is in Myanmar with a room of 100+ Burmese people who were doing the five-point bow. In India and Aus/NZ his students just bow from sitting position which ever sitting posture they're in.pilgrim wrote:I guess it is uncommon but can understand for someone of Goenka;s stature.Ben wrote:Yes, to express gratitude and respect.pilgrim wrote:Does Goenka's students bow to him ?
kind regards,
Ben
To be clear, I'm referring to on your knees, head to floor bow ( aka the 5 point prostration). The reason I'm asking is that I know of a lay teacher who "is being bowed to" and just want to know if there is a precedent. So I guess it is not inappropriate.
I've also seen Burmese people bowing to a picture of Sayagi U Ba Khin at a shrine at IMC Yangon. Sayagi's teacher was Saya (U Po) Thet. And I imagine that his Burmese students bowed to him. But apparently he gave his Dhamma talks from behind a screen.
kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..