Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.

Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby M.G.A. » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:44 pm

Dear everyone,

I have been a member here for a very long time, but also a very quiet one indeed! Now I am having some personal problems and figured that maybe someone here might be able to give me some guidance. If that is the case I am sincerely grateful!

Since a longer retreat at Nissarana Vanaya in Sri Lanka I have been having the intention to ordain. However mainly some student loans have been holding me back. My main idea have been to repay them asap, and then go for ordination, maybe in Australia. Unfortunately however I just found out I had a brain tumour, and and at the moment I am having radiation- and chemotheraphy. I am having some troubles with walking, and am experiencing double vision, (if I don't cover one of my eyes,) as a side effect of the surgery. So if you are thinking about ordination and at the same time telling yourself that it isn't any rush, well, maybe...!

First of all I have to go through all these treatments, and at this point I am not certain about my future prognosis, but the samvega to reach Stream-Entry has almost never been greater. As I see it it is very crucial that I enter the stream asap, and I am wondering if anyone have any suggestions on how to?

Depending on the nearest future different options would of course be more or less attractive, but I was hoping that maybe already now you could, if it is not a burden for you, give me some advice on a good place for me to ordain (as a samanera, or maybe even a bhikkhu depending on my future health.) Would you suggest a place in the west (I'm a Swedish citizen) or in Asia Etc... Any help/support would be much very much appreciated!!

My very best regards! Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Mikael
The customs and rituals of people with kilesas are numerous beyond description, unlike the ways of Dhamma which are always constant and unalterable.
- Ãcariya Maha Boowa Ñāṇasampanno
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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby Clarence » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:01 pm

I am very sorry. I can't give you advice but I wish you all the best. I hope you recover soon and fully and become a Bhikkhu and enter the stream in this life.
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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby Zom » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:30 pm

First of all I have to go through all these treatments, and at this point I am not certain about my future prognosis, but the samvega to reach Stream-Entry has almost never been greater. As I see it it is very crucial that I enter the stream asap, and I am wondering if anyone have any suggestions on how to?


Consider these 10 short suttas from SN 25 Samyutta very carefully:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... ml#okkanta
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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby Paññāsikhara » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:48 am

Dear Mikael,

Unfortunately, I too cannot suggest any particular place.
But I just wanted to say that I support you in your decision,
and hope that your path is smooth!

All the best!

~~ Huifeng
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:05 am

Hi Mikael,

I wish I knew of somewhere to tell you but I don't. You might try asking Ven. Gavesako or Ven. Pesala what they think. I just want to offer you my support and admiration and please do let me know if you need anything. Anumodana for your noble aditthana and I wish you all the best. Mettaya.

Mike (Khalil Bodhi)
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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby Moth » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:12 am

Abhayagiri is nice, in California. You could also try Nanananda Thera's monestary in Sri Lanka. Nanavira Thera's Notes on Dhamma might also be helpful.
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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby M.G.A. » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:27 pm

Thanks for your time, support and friendliness my dear friends! Has anyone visited Muttodaya in Germany? How is that place? Do you know anything about style of practise? Etc. The place certainly looks great to me!

Metta!
The customs and rituals of people with kilesas are numerous beyond description, unlike the ways of Dhamma which are always constant and unalterable.
- Ãcariya Maha Boowa Ñāṇasampanno
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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:17 pm

Every group is different, some (as you may remember) require a period of anagarika training, others may not! it all depends on the place, and if they have a Preceptor there.

your health problems may/will also be a concern for a preceptor, as there are 10 sicknesses one can not ordain as a Bhikkhu for [edit - this list is not exactly exhaustive if you bare in mind the great standard] and this would also carry for a samanera in some peoples eyes, just the same as some will ordain someone who had committed a parajika as a samanera while others wont.

practice now, don't worry about the form you are in (lay or ordained) just practice, straighten your view, and practice in line with reality!
it will be for your benefit in the long run.
Last edited by Cittasanto on Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:23 pm

Manapa wrote:Every group is different, some (as you may remember) require a period of anagarika training, others may not! it all depends on the place, and if they have a Preceptor there.

your health problems may/will also be a concern for a preceptor, as there are 10 sicknesses one can not ordain as a Bhikkhu for and this would also carry for a samanera in some peoples eyes, just the same as some will ordain someone who had committed a parajika as a samanera while others wont.

practice now, don't worry about the form you are in (lay or ordained) just practice, straighten your view, and practice in line with reality!
it will be for your benefit in the long run.

:goodpost:
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby manas » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:34 pm

First of all I have to go through all these treatments, and at this point I am not certain about my future prognosis, but the samvega to reach Stream-Entry has almost never been greater. As I see it it is very crucial that I enter the stream asap, and I am wondering if anyone have any suggestions on how to?


The colour of your mind matters much more than the colour of your clothing. Don't let this (admittedly noble) aspiration to ordain become a distraction or worse still, a worry, that takes energy away from what really matters. If you rush around trying to find some place where you can get into robes, you might run out of time to practise in the way you now still can. Right now you can walk, stand, sit and lie down. Take advantage of this. practice mindfulness of the body (and the other frames of reference) day and night. What I would ask is, do you have a quiet place in which to meditate? Do you think you can arrange someplace - it doesn't necessarily have to be a monastery - where you can really push forward with the practice, undistracted and focussed? These (imho) are the questions I would be asking. The Buddha said that the Noble Eightfold Path leads to Nibbana. I know that sounds like a really obvious thing to say, but sometimes I get lost in so much detail and end up making it more complex than it really is...walk that path, with faith in the wisdom of the One who revealed it (and faith in your own inner wisdom, that sees it's importance), and just cultivate the path, to the best of your human ability - wherever you happen to be.


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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby cooran » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:47 pm

M.G.A. wrote:Thanks for your time, support and friendliness my dear friends! Has anyone visited Muttodaya in Germany? How is that place? Do you know anything about style of practise? Etc. The place certainly looks great to me!

Metta!


Hello M.G.A.

This link may provide some information on Muttodaya.
http://www.muttodaya.org/en/main.html

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby M.G.A. » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:41 am

Thanks for your wise answers! Many good points! :)
The customs and rituals of people with kilesas are numerous beyond description, unlike the ways of Dhamma which are always constant and unalterable.
- Ãcariya Maha Boowa Ñāṇasampanno
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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby Ben » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:48 am

Cittasanto wrote:practice now, don't worry about the form you are in (lay or ordained) just practice, straighten your view, and practice in line with reality!
it will be for your benefit in the long run.


Well said!
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby Alobha » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:02 am

M.G.A. wrote:Thanks for your time, support and friendliness my dear friends! Has anyone visited Muttodaya in Germany? How is that place? Do you know anything about style of practise? Etc. The place certainly looks great to me!

Metta!


Bhikku Gavesako stayed there for a longer period of time. I've visited the place too. The abbot Ajahn Cattamalo is a disciple of Ajahn Chah, so Muttodaya is pretty much a forest monastery.

If you are more comfortable with speaking english, i recommend you to visit http://foresthermitage.org.uk/. Luang Por Khemadhammo is also a disciple of Ajahn Chah and a great teacher. Plus tickets to Birmingham (or London) might be cheaper than tickets to Munich from your place. Luang Por and the forest hermitage are also glad to welcome laypeople who want to stay for a longer period of time to help run the monastery. The people there are incredibly kind and patient. :smile:
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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby Ferox » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:29 am

I'm no wise man but I would say that you have been given a gift of something like cancer to ponder on and experience that may prove useful in moving towards stream-entry. It did for me and I was just merely a caregiver of my wife who fought cancer for four years before her death back in 2005. These types of things smack impermanence right in your face and I agree that your worry about robes might be a mere distraction from seeing the true dhamma in front of you :).
-just one more being treading the ancient path of Dhamma-
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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby Anagarika » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:57 pm

Dear Mikael:

I wish you the best outcome with your treatments and I know that much progress has been made in the treatment of cancer. I trust your doctors are taking very good care of you.

As for ordination, I might suggest Wat Sri Boen Ruang in northern Thailand, for consideration of Samanera ordination, and if you wish to proceed further, for Bhikkhu ordination. You may find information about the Temple at: http://www.monkordination.com

The Abbot at WSBR is Dr. Apisit, a young Bhikkhu with a Ph.D. who is a wonderful person and a very engaged community leader through WSBR. The Wat itself is a very vibrant community center in northern Thailand. At WSBR is Phra Fred and Phra Greg, a British Bhikkhu and New Zealander, respectively. Both of these BHikkhus are very dedicated monks and teachers, as well as being just very good people. They help make the experience at WSBR very welcoming and vibrant. To note, in the area (Chiang Mai) are several excellent world class hospitals, in the event you would need any follow up care.

Many from the US and Europe have come to WSBR to visit, to take vipassana teachings, and further, to stay for a longer period for samanera ordination. Others, Thai and Western alike, stay on and progress toward Bhikkhu ordination. I recommend at least contacting Phra Fred or Phra Greg regarding your wishes. Phra Greg's email and contact info is at the site mentioned above.

With Metta,

Michael
Last edited by Anagarika on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby hermitwin » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:37 pm

If you are interested to ordain in South East Asia, I do have a few suggestions.
In Germany, I think the centre started by Ayya Khema is called Buddhahaus.
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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby hermitwin » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:45 pm

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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby hermitwin » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:08 pm

http://www.buddha-haus.de/metta_vihara_engl.htm

this is the forest monastery started by Ayya Khema.
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Re: Stream-Entry/ordination/cancer

Postby M.G.A. » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:38 pm

Greta ideas! I will consider/look into all of them. This is, as you said, indeed an excellent remainder of impermanence, and I also feel that I've really progressed in my understanding of the Dhamma due to this situation. So it can actually, strange as it may sound, be called a gift.

Anyhow, next Monday the first cycle of treatments are planned to be finished. Will be great!

Take care for now my dear friends and strive on hard, before it is too late!
The customs and rituals of people with kilesas are numerous beyond description, unlike the ways of Dhamma which are always constant and unalterable.
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