Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.

Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby abhishek_laser » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:28 pm

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Zom » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:36 pm

Hello,

Alas, they won't give you an ordination without a permission. Nanachat is a very strict place to go. They won't give you ordination even with permission before you show yourself during a year or two.. or more.. ) During this period of testing you will have to wear white clothes and observe 8 precepts.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Ytrog » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:11 pm

Are they refusing permission or haven't you asked them yet?

They won't give you ordination even with permission before you show yourself during a year or two.. or more.. ) During this period of testing you will have to wear white clothes and observe 8 precepts.

Eight, ten or 227 rules don't really matter if you are able to maintain mindfulness and are cautious. You would still be living in a monastery. Of course the more rules allow you to keep your life decreasingly complicated, so it would be a nice step eventually. From ten rules you can't have money anymore and don't have to worry about such things either. ;)
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby abhishek_laser » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:23 am

a
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:30 am

Greetings,

abhishek_laser wrote:But I've not been able to get my parent's permission for doing so.

I may be wrong but I don't think you need your parents permission to become a samanera.

8-)

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Bankei » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:24 am

Parental permission is not necessary.

One exception is if you threaten to burn down the monastery if the monks do not ordain you (seriously).
See the article
Crosby, Kate 2005 Only if you let go of that Tree: Ordination without Parental Consent according to Theravåda Vinaya. Buddhist Studies Review
available online.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:49 am

I would say go and stay there anyway. For a young person who has already graduated or at least finished high school, one year out to reflect seriously on how they want to spend the rest of their life is not a long time. If, after one year, you decide that monastic life is not for you, at least you know what it entails, learnt something about meditation and the Dhamma, and gained some useful skills for lay life.

If you do find it is the right choice for you, by then your parents may have come around to accepting your choice. They may come out to visit you, and be happy to give their permission, or even participate by offering your monk's requisites, etc.

If they still don't agree, I guess there's still the "threaten to burn down the monastery" option :tantrum:
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby hermitwin » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:43 pm

I know of a teenager in China who wanted to become a monk and his parents refused.
He went to the monastery anyway.
His parents brought him home and locked him in the house.
The moment they let him out he ran back to the monastery.
Again, the parents took him home.
After repeating this several times, the parents relented and he became a monk.

I have a hypothetical question ie. If your parents refuse permission and you threaten
to kill yourself. then your parents relent. Is this acceptable?
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Alexei » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:56 pm

hermitwin wrote:I have a hypothetical question ie. If your parents refuse permission and you threaten
to kill yourself. then your parents relent. Is this acceptable?


If you are going to commit suicide it's acceptable to hospitalize you against your will. At least in some countries. Check your local laws :)
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Goofaholix » Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:17 pm

Have you stayed in a monastery as a layman before? If not you are thinking too far ahead.

I think you should have a 3 month retreat at Wat Pah Nanachat first, see how you like it. You'll have to leave the country to get a new visa anyway.

This might convince your parents you are serious and it's not a fad, or by talking to people there you might find out about monasteries closer to home that you want to check out, or you might find this life is not for you.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Gena1480 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:09 pm

you not alone in this, i have the same problem
and and writing a letter to the monastery.
and yes they put me in hospital against my will
so it does not work in new york.
parents specially mother will go to high extremes and use any lies to keep from going.
even treat of taking of they own life.
but i will outsmart them anyway.
learn what their weakness and strong points.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Bankei » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:36 pm

hermitwin wrote: .

I have a hypothetical question ie. If your parents refuse permission and you threaten
to kill yourself. then your parents relent. Is this acceptable?


It appears so according to the Theravada commentarial tradition.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Goofaholix » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:53 pm

Bankei wrote:
hermitwin wrote: .

I have a hypothetical question ie. If your parents refuse permission and you threaten
to kill yourself. then your parents relent. Is this acceptable?


It appears so according to the Theravada commentarial tradition.


Really? the commentaries suggest this? I'd have thought it was totally unethical.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby daverupa » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:08 am

Ratthapala found a solution praised by the Buddha.

AN 1.14:
"Ratthapala is foremost for going forth out of faith."

See also: this previous thread
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Bankei » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:22 am

Bankei wrote:Parental permission is not necessary.

One exception is if you threaten to burn down the monastery if the monks do not ordain you (seriously).
See the article
Crosby, Kate 2005 Only if you let go of that Tree: Ordination without Parental Consent according to Theravåda Vinaya. Buddhist Studies Review
available online.


Here is the link
http://www.ukabs.org.uk/ukabs/wp-conten ... 2-2005.pdf

It is to the whole volume so is rather large.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby abhishek_laser » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:09 am

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Alexei » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:37 am

abhishek_laser wrote:Some of you have recommended that I stay in the monastery for 3 months or 1 year. But in the website for Wat Pah Nanachat they have mentioned that it is recommended that you need to stay there for 5 years, to really understand the monastic life


It could possibly take a few weeks to understand that is not for me.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby hermitwin » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:03 pm

Go for it, man.
Afterall, what have you got to lose.
except maybe your 'self'

abhishek_laser wrote:Thank you for all the responses given so far.

I think threatening to burn down the monastery or threatening to commit suicide would be considered speaking lies if you don't really mean to do it, both of which I really would do.

Some of you have recommended that I stay in the monastery for 3 months or 1 year. But in the website for Wat Pah Nanachat they have mentioned that it is recommended that you need to stay there for 5 years, to really understand the monastic life and i've read in many of ajahn chah's talks that he too recommends anyone taking ordination to do it for 5 years since he feels that only then do you have 5% of the understanding of dhamma, before that you have 0% percent :D
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Zom » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:11 pm

I would not recommend becoming a monk before establishing a solid foundation for that in lay-life. Being a monk is not a fun, but a hard work and serious task. While disrobing is called by the Buddha "a death in the Discipline of the Noble Ones". Very few people stay in robes for all their life. Perhaps only 5% of those who's got ordination. All others "are dead".
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Goofaholix » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:23 pm

abhishek_laser wrote:Some of you have recommended that I stay in the monastery for 3 months or 1 year. But in the website for Wat Pah Nanachat they have mentioned that it is recommended that you need to stay there for 5 years, to really understand the monastic life and i've read in many of ajahn chah's talks that he too recommends anyone taking ordination to do it for 5 years since he feels that only then do you have 5% of the understanding of dhamma, before that you have 0% percent :D


The 5 years is if you ordain, you haven't even got to the point where you can do that yet, the 3 months is to give a taste and make sure this life is for you, and hopefully convince your parents you are serious.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah
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