Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.

Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby abhishek_laser » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:10 pm

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Bankei » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:08 am

But, if you are not ordained then how does the visa situation work? Generally the tourist visa is for a max of 90 days.

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Goofaholix » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:30 am

Bankei wrote:But, if you are not ordained then how does the visa situation work? Generally the tourist visa is for a max of 90 days.


Yes, so he'll have to leave the country and return every 90 days, which is why I suggested give it a 3 month trial then decide on the next move.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby ancientbuddhism » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:47 am

This may be of interest with reference to the social dynamics of WPN.

What the Buddha Never Taught by Tim Ward
Katamo ca bhikkhave asaṅkhatagāmī maggo: samatho ca vipassanā ca. Ayaṃ vuccati bhikkhave asaṅkhatagāmī maggo.

“And what, bhikkhus, is the path leading to the unconditioned? Calm and insight. This, bhikkhus, is called the path leading to the unconditioned.” SN. 43.2 – Samathavipassanāsuttaṃ

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Goofaholix » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:01 am

ancientbuddhism wrote:This may be of interest with reference to the social dynamics of WPN.

What the Buddha Never Taught by Tim Ward


Worth a read as a reality check.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Zom » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:08 am

So I guess even my case is also uncertain, but anyway at Wat Pah Nanachat they do allow a minimum of 6 months of being an anagarika before being ordained. I guess this is good period to know if i'm up for it or not.


This is too uncertain ,)
There is such thing as neophytism - it may last for several years. During this period you will be excited by everything (simply because this is unique and new experience) and this excitement will help you to "be a monk". When this new experience becomes ordinary and dull (and it certainly will during first years) - this energy will fade away and there appears a high probability that you will disrobe.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Mr Man » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:25 am

Zom wrote:
This is too uncertain ,)
There is such thing as neophytism - it may last for several years. During this period you will be excited by everything (simply because this is unique and new experience) and this excitement will help you to "be a monk". When this new experience becomes ordinary and dull (and it certainly will during first years) - this energy will fade away and there appears a high probability that you will disrobe.


You may be right, are you talking from a position of experience? It may also be delay the journey and never finish. I'm sure there are many monks who entered the monesty with no long term view and not firmly established in the practice but who are still in robes today (for better or for worse :) ).
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Zom » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:19 am

You may be right, are you talking from a position of experience?


Personally I have no experience being in robes, but I have friends who are monks (so far). So I have some information on this account ,)

I'm sure there are many monks who entered the monesty with no long term view and not firmly established in the practice but who are still in robes today


I'm not sure that "there are many" such monks ,) Perhaps this is a quite rare case.

This is a common mistake to think that once you get the robes, your defilements will fade away and progress practice will be fast, good and fruitful.
So I'm trying to point on the idea that one should be ready to be a monk before ordaining, no need to hurry.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Mr Man » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:58 am

Zom wrote:
I'm sure there are many monks who entered the monesty with no long term view and not firmly established in the practice but who are still in robes today


I'm not sure that "there are many" such monks ,) Perhaps this is a quite rare case.

I think you will find it to be the case with most of the senior western monks who were under the tuterage of Ajahn Chah or who are connected with that grouping

This is a common mistake to think that once you get the robes, your defilements will fade away and progress practice will be fast, good and fruitful.

I'm not sure if it is a "common mistake".
So I'm trying to point on the idea that one should be ready to be a monk before ordaining, no need to hurry.
I don't think is really possible to be ready except in the most basic and practical sense. If you wait until you think you are ready you may be waiting an awful long time. It is also quite possible the one's idea of "being ready" is quite wide of the mark.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Goofaholix » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:58 am

Zom wrote:
I'm sure there are many monks who entered the monesty with no long term view and not firmly established in the practice but who are still in robes today


I'm not sure that "there are many" such monks ,) Perhaps this is a quite rare case.


Reading the monks bios in the book "Seeing the Way" it struck me how many of them stumbled into the monastic life without really planning to, met Ajahn Chah, and later decided to stick with it.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:53 am

I've no idea of relative numbers, but one of my teachers (who is now back in his homeland of Bangladesh) ordained as a samanera in his teens, planning to just do a 3 month retreat, and decided to stay on.

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Zom » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:56 pm

I think you will find it to be the case with most of the senior western monks who were under the tuterage of Ajahn Chah or who are connected with that grouping


I've heard Ajahn Sumedho mentioned that not many "senior monks" are still in robes. Only some are in robes. Others disrobed.
Though, I have no exact information on this account.

I don't think is really possible to be ready except in the most basic and practical sense. If you wait until you think you are ready you may be waiting an awful long time


No problem with that if you still keep practising Noble Eightfold Path. Nibbana is not something you can get just because you ordain ,)
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Mr Man » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:11 am

Zom wrote:I've heard Ajahn Sumedho mentioned that not many "senior monks" are still in robes. Only some are in robes. Others disrobed.
Though, I have no exact information on this account.

If they have disrobed they are no longer senior monks.

No problem with that if you still keep practising Noble Eightfold Path. Nibbana is not something you can get just because you ordain ,)

Of cause you can keep practicing. But I'm not personally convinced that continued practice as a layperson is necessarily going to put you in better position to live the monastic life, if that is one's aspiration.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Zom » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:20 am

Of cause you can keep practicing. But I'm not personally convinced that continued practice as a layperson is necessarily going to put you in better position to live the monastic life, if that is one's aspiration.


In a proper time, possibly yes.
However, as suttas show, you can still keep practising at home even on anagami level.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Bankei » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:46 pm

Goofaholix wrote:
ancientbuddhism wrote:This may be of interest with reference to the social dynamics of WPN.

What the Buddha Never Taught by Tim Ward


Worth a read as a reality check.


Yes, this is a great book and should be read by anyone contemplating going to WPN
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Goofaholix » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:23 pm

Bankei wrote:Yes, this is a great book and should be read by anyone contemplating going to WPN


I wouldn't go that far, it shows what happens when somebody goes there missing the point of it all, but it is a good read and I think prepares people that might otherwise believe it's some kind of spiritual utopia there.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby appicchato » Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:36 am

Slightly off-topic but 'uncertain' has been mentioned several times...everything is uncertain (with the exception that our bodies in this life will wither and die...expect the unexpected...
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby abhishek_laser » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:45 am

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Goofaholix » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:25 am

abhishek_laser wrote:Anyway I've come to a decision to spend 6 months in Wat Pah Nanachat and return back home. Then decide what future course I need to take afterwards. Just wanted to confirm whether such a short stay is allowed in Wat Pah Nanachat and also is to possible to communicate with them by any other means other than sending them a letter since it almost took 3 months to get a reply from them, this is not a practical way to inform them ahead of time, if I wish to stay there.


Six months is not too short a time, sometimes people stay there only a few days.

I think unless things have changed they really prefer to use snail mail, I think they probably believe that if people haven't the patience to organise ahead and wait for a letter they probably don't have the patience to practise there.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby abhishek_laser » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:28 am

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