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Buddha nature - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Buddha nature

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Goofaholix
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby Goofaholix » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:58 am


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Dan74
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby Dan74 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:21 am

My sense is that we all hold on to concepts, teachings and beliefs. Most of these are hopefully beneficial and help to uproot unwholesome habits.

When someone else comes along with their pet belief, perhaps it is good to pause and reflect on whether this too could be beneficial to them even if we don't share this particular belief.

Buddha nature is an expedient, skillful means. It can be a designation, a pointer or an obstacle. It is not a statement of doctrine, it is not an assertion of an existent something. At most it is saying that Nibbana is an unconditioned dhamma. Typically (in my lineage) it is saying that liberation does not come from the outside and is not something to gain but manifests when the defilements and obscurations are let gone of. In terms of faith, it inspires a practitioner with the belief that he or she already have it and spurs them on with the inquiry why if they have it do they still suffer and delude themselves.

It is a powerful teaching that has been used by many generation of great Mahayana teachers.

Just because the Buddha is not on record to have used it does not make it useless. This is a leap of logic that is neither justified, nor probably beneficial in its effect on others (as we see with our friend Greg). It may indeed be no use to you or me - if you have attained liberation without delving into the teachings on the Buddha nature - wonderful! But it may well be of use to others and without proper understanding one should not rush to dismiss it, I think.

By coincidence just this morning I was reading one of the letters of Zen Master Ta Hui on this very subject, in the collection Swampland Flowers, which I heartily recommend to anyone remotely interested in Zen and Mayahana.
_/|\_

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mikenz66
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:56 am

Thanks Dan,

When people use terminology that initially sounds completely oxymoronic to me, such as Buddha Nature or True Self, I have often found that the problem is with the terminology rather than what they are trying to get at.

:anjali:
Mike

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retrofuturist
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:03 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Cittasanto
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:39 am

preferences make the world go round!
and to be away from them is....


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Dan74
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby Dan74 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:21 pm

_/|\_

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Aloka
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby Aloka » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:03 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:22 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Aloka
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby Aloka » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:48 pm


greggorious
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby greggorious » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:12 pm

I haven't moved on, in fact I haven't moved anywhere. I'm more confused than I've ever been. I've practiced Zen for a few years but became interested in Vipassana too, As Zazen is primarily concentration based, and I also want something Insight based. However at the same time I'm not sure how many people who do Vipassana meditation trust their own wisdom through their meditations or still cling to every single thing The Buddha was meant to have said.
"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah

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Cittasanto
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:29 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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amtross
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby amtross » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:35 pm

Here's one you might recognize from Zen: Why don't you just sit? Get a good Vipassanna book or a teacher, sit down and see what you see. If you see buddha nature...great. What does that feel like. Is it permanent? or changing?....you get the idea.

May you be well
sean

greggorious
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby greggorious » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:41 pm

You checking up on me on the zen forum?
"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah

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amtross
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby amtross » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:43 pm

if you're talking to me, no

I was refering to my use of the term "just sit", which I've heard used quite often by zen practitioners.

greggorious
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby greggorious » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:45 pm

No I wasn't refering to you. Yes I'm well aware of the 'Just sit' statement. Many Zen masters will say 'Why don't you just sit and shut up'.
"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah

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Cittasanto
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:52 pm

maybe you should read the thread, there was a link shared earlier.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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mikenz66
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:36 pm


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Goofaholix
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby Goofaholix » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:39 pm


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Aloka
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby Aloka » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:58 pm


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Dan74
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Re: Buddha nature

Postby Dan74 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:10 pm

_/|\_


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