Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

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Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:55 am

What are your favourite sutta/s you turn to for guidance in Lay-life?

mine are the Mangala Sutta & The Karaniya Metta Sutta specifically, although there are others for practice in general.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:22 am

Greetings Cittasanto,

Mine is the Maha-Satipatthana Sutta.

:reading: :meditate: :reading:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


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One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby Aloka » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:47 pm

Hi Cittasano,

Of the suttas I've read so far, I think my favorite is Phena Sutta SN 22.95.

with kind wishes,


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Re: Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby bodom » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:47 pm

Hey Cittasano

Definitely these:

Sigalovada Sutta: The Discourse to Sigala
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nara.html

This sutta describes in depth the virtue to be developed by the householder.

Piti Sutta: Rapture
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

In this sutta the Buddha instructs householders to meditate.

Dighajanu (Vyagghapajja) Sutta: Conditions of Welfare
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nara.html

In this sutta the Buddha lays out a gradual path of practice for the householder including developing right livelihood, spending money wisely, faith, generosity, virtue and wisdom that "understands the arising and cessation (of the five aggregates of existence."

Vera Sutta: Animosity
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

In this sutta the Buddha instructs the lay follower Anathapindika to see dependent origination.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby bodom » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:09 pm

Also these:

Mahanama Sutta: To Mahanama (2)
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

In this sutta the Buddha instructs his lay followers to develop the six recollections "while you are walking, while you are standing, while you are sitting, while you are lying down, while you are busy at work, while you are resting in your home crowded with children."

Dhammadinna Sutta
No known online translation

In this sutta the Buddha instructs his lay followers:

"Therefore, Dhammadinna, you should train yourselves
thus: 'From time to time we will enter and dwell upon those discourses spoken by the Tathaagata that are deep, deep in meaninng, suparamundane, dealing with emptiness." It is in such a way that that you should train yourselves."

:anjali:

*More to be added when time permits.

Also see this thread:

Suttas for the Householder
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=259

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:43 pm

bodom wrote:Dighajanu (Vyagghapajja) Sutta: Conditions of Welfare
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nara.html


completely forgot about this text :oops:

but do you have a reference to the Dhammadina sutta SN55.53??
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby bodom » Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:29 pm

I havent been able to find an online translation. I copied the above out of my copy of Bodhi's Samyutta Nikaya translation pg. 1833-34.

Here is an abbreviated version of BB translation:

"Let the Blessed One, venerable sir, exhort us and instruct us in a way that may lead to our welfare and happiness for a long time."

"Therefore, Dhammadinna, you should train yourselves
thus:

'From time to time we will enter and dwell upon those discourses spoken by the Tathaagata that are deep, deep in meaninng, suparamundane, dealing with emptiness." It is in such a way that that you should train yourselves."


Dhammadinna then tells the Buddha:

We, Lord, are laymen who enjoy worldly pleasure. We lead a life encumbered by wife and children...[and that it would be difficult for them to meditate on emptiness.]


The Buddha then gives them the five precepts and proclaims all in attendance as being stream enterers.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby cooran » Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:13 pm

Hello bodom,

A little more from a previous post of yours:

On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling at
Baranasi in the Deer Park at Isipatana. Then the lay follower
Dhammadinna, together with five hundred lay followers,
approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, and sat down
to one side. Sitting to one side, the lay follower Dhammadinna
then said to the Blessed One: “Let the Blessed One, venerable
sir, exhort us and instruct us in a way that may lead to our
welfare and happiness for a long time.”

"Therefore, Dhammadinna, you should train yourselves thus:
‘From time to time we will enter and dwell upon those
discourses spoken by the Tathagata that are deep, deep in
meaning, supramundane, dealing with emptiness.’ It is in such a
way that you should train yourselves.”

“Venerable sir, it is not easy for us – dwelling in a home
crowded with children, enjoying Kasian sandalwood, wearing
garlands, scents, and cosmetics, receiving gold and silver – from
time to time to enter and dwell upon those discourses spoken by
the Tathagata that are deep, deep in meaning, supramundane,
dealing with emptiness. As we are established in the five training
rules, let the Blessed One teach us the Dhamma further.”
“Therefore, Dhammadinna, you should train yourselves thus:
‘We will possess confirmed confidence in the Buddha... in the
Dhamma... in the Sangha.... We will possess the virtues dear to
the noble ones, unbroken... leading to concentration.’ It is in
such a way that you should train yourselves.”

“Venerable sir, as to these four factors of stream-entry taught by
the Blessed One, these things exist in us, and we live in
conformity with those things. For, venerable sir, we possess
confirmed confidence in the Buddha, the the Dhamma, and the
Sangha. We possess the virtues dear to the noble ones,
unbroken... leading to concentration.”

“It is a gain for you, Dhammadinna! It is well gained by you,
Dhammadinna! You have declared the fruit of stream-entry.”
~ S 55.53, (Bhikkhu Bodhi trans.)
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4510&start=20#p106807

with metta
Chris
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Re: Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby bodom » Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:27 pm

Thank you Chris! I knew I posted the sutta elsewhere before but couldn't remember where.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby Prasadachitta » Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:50 pm

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an08/an08.053.than.html

Gotami Sutta: To Gotami
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 1996–2012

I have heard that at one time the Blessed One was staying at Vesali, in the Peaked Roof Hall in the Great Forest.

Then Mahapajapati Gotami went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, stood to one side. As she was standing there she said to him: "It would be good, lord, if the Blessed One would teach me the Dhamma in brief such that, having heard the Dhamma from the Blessed One, I might dwell alone, secluded, heedful, ardent, & resolute."

"Gotami, the qualities of which you may know, 'These qualities lead to passion, not to dispassion; to being fettered, not to being unfettered; to accumulating, not to shedding; to self-aggrandizement, not to modesty; to discontent, not to contentment; to entanglement, not to seclusion; to laziness, not to aroused persistence; to being burdensome, not to being unburdensome': You may categorically hold, 'This is not the Dhamma, this is not the Vinaya, this is not the Teacher's instruction.'

"As for the qualities of which you may know, 'These qualities lead to dispassion, not to passion; to being unfettered, not to being fettered; to shedding, not to accumulating; to modesty, not to self-aggrandizement; to contentment, not to discontent; to seclusion, not to entanglement; to aroused persistence, not to laziness; to being unburdensome, not to being burdensome': You may categorically hold, 'This is the Dhamma, this is the Vinaya, this is the Teacher's instruction.'"

That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, Mahapajapati Gotami delighted at his words.
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
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Re: Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby Tyler » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:32 pm

Mahanidana Sutta; The Great Discourse on Origination

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.15.0.than.html
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Re: Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby thisisanoldrule » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:23 am

bodom wrote:Definitely these:

Sigalovada Sutta: The Discourse to Sigala
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nara.html

This sutta describes in depth the virtue to be developed by the householder.


The first time I read the section in there about true friends and false friends it brought tears to my eyes -- I was going through a tough time and it really opened my eyes and made me appreciate those who had been there for me, and how I'd hurt myself by being undiscerning and putting my trust in the wrong persons.
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Re: Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby purist_andrew » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:27 pm

I like the Dhammika Sutta.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/snp/snp.2.14.irel.html

Advice on the eight precepts with emphasis on the virtue of the five and not encouraging others to break the five, as well as on the Uposatha, dana to the monks, being dilligent, and attaining a fortunate rebirth among the "shining" devas.

I kinda thought that it was a little strange though, as far as this passage:

"Now I will tell you the layman's duty. Following it a lay-disciple would be virtuous; for it is not possible for one occupied with the household life to realize the complete bhikkhu practice (dhamma).


Of course we know throughout the Canon and the history of the dispensation many laymen and laywomen have attained, but apart from that statement it seems to suggest a good practice for both this life and the next.

Thoughts?
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Re: Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:36 pm

purist_andrew wrote:I like the Dhammika Sutta.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/snp/snp.2.14.irel.html

Advice on the eight precepts with emphasis on the virtue of the five and not encouraging others to break the five, as well as on the Uposatha, dana to the monks, being dilligent, and attaining a fortunate rebirth among the "shining" devas.

I kinda thought that it was a little strange though, as far as this passage:

"Now I will tell you the layman's duty. Following it a lay-disciple would be virtuous; for it is not possible for one occupied with the household life to realize the complete bhikkhu practice (dhamma).


Of course we know throughout the Canon and the history of the dispensation many laymen and laywomen have attained, but apart from that statement it seems to suggest a good practice for both this life and the next.

Thoughts?

Hi andrew,
it maybe better to start a new thread for any thoughts on this particular sutta as it would get more attention that way?
but the quoted part is to do with the livelihood and precepts, not the attainments possible, a householder can not live by the rules of the mendicant communities due to the nature of the household life, how would a householder get by without money, or ability to shop for food, or the food requirements needed for certain work?
it is in essence saying if you are going to be a mendicant be a mendicant, if you are going to be a lay person be a lay person, sure there are some precepts which can be addopted by lay people but the entire set of rules can not be.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby purist_andrew » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:06 pm

Cittasanto wrote:
purist_andrew wrote:I like the Dhammika Sutta.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/snp/snp.2.14.irel.html

Advice on the eight precepts with emphasis on the virtue of the five and not encouraging others to break the five, as well as on the Uposatha, dana to the monks, being dilligent, and attaining a fortunate rebirth among the "shining" devas.

I kinda thought that it was a little strange though, as far as this passage:

"Now I will tell you the layman's duty. Following it a lay-disciple would be virtuous; for it is not possible for one occupied with the household life to realize the complete bhikkhu practice (dhamma).


Of course we know throughout the Canon and the history of the dispensation many laymen and laywomen have attained, but apart from that statement it seems to suggest a good practice for both this life and the next.

Thoughts?

Hi andrew,
it maybe better to start a new thread for any thoughts on this particular sutta as it would get more attention that way?
but the quoted part is to do with the livelihood and precepts, not the attainments possible, a householder can not live by the rules of the mendicant communities due to the nature of the household life, how would a householder get by without money, or ability to shop for food, or the food requirements needed for certain work?
it is in essence saying if you are going to be a mendicant be a mendicant, if you are going to be a lay person be a lay person, sure there are some precepts which can be addopted by lay people but the entire set of rules can not be.


Hi Citta,

I have to take a different interpretation of the statement in question than you. To me, "bhikkhu practice" means the threefold training culminating in liberation, not things like robes, eating donated food and so on. The reason I think this makes sense is because following that statement, the Buddha instructs the lay disciple in this sutta towards the end of being "virtuous" and in addition to the end of attaining a rebirth in the deva plane rather than, and falling short of, liberation. To me, this means he is saying "A layperson cannot complete the threefold training (because the household life impedes it), but, falling short of that, here is what he can do -- be virtuous and attain a heavenly rebirth."

I was pointing out that although we know the tradition says the household life is full of impediments to liberation, it's not impossible to attain it from within said. That's the discrepancy.

Nonetheless, I like the sutta; it's concise and shows how to be virtuous and attain a good (even "shining" or "radiant") rebirth, and I like the parts about dana to the sangha, supporting your parents, and not encouraging others to break the five precepts. Neat.
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Re: Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby Lazy_eye » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:42 pm

Just wanted to thank you, Cittasanto, for this thread topic, and Bodom and other participants for your selections. I found the Dhammadinna Sutta particularly inspiring.

Therefore, Dhammadinna, you should train yourselves thus: ‘From time to time we will enter and dwell upon those discourses spoken by the Tathagata that are deep, deep in
meaning, supramundane, dealing with emptiness.’ It is in such a way that you should train yourselves.”


:anjali:
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Re: Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby Ricardo da Silva » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:22 am

My favorite Suttas for lay practice

Sigalovada Sutta: The Discourse to Sigala
Mingala Sutta
Karaniya Metta Sutta
Maha-Satipatthana Sutta
Dhajjaga Sutta

Kesaputtiya Sutta (Kalama Sutta): The Discourse to the Kalamas
http://www.thisismyanmar.com/nibbana/ti ... saputt.htm

:reading: :coffee:
If a man does evil, he should not do it again and again; he should not take delight in it; the accumulation of evil leads to suffering. (Dhammapada 117)

If a man does what is good, he should do it again and again; he should take delight in it; the accumulation of good leads to happiness. (Dhammapada 118)
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Re: Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:31 am

Ricardo da Silva wrote:My favorite Suttas for lay practice

Sigalovada Sutta: The Discourse to Sigala
Mingala Sutta
Karaniya Metta Sutta
Maha-Satipatthana Sutta
Dhajjaga Sutta

Kesaputtiya Sutta (Kalama Sutta): The Discourse to the Kalamas
http://www.thisismyanmar.com/nibbana/ti ... saputt.htm

:reading: :coffee:


The mingala sutta? do you mean mangala sutta?
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Your Favourite Sutta for Lay Practice?

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:34 am

purist_andrew wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:Hi andrew,
it maybe better to start a new thread for any thoughts on this particular sutta as it would get more attention that way?
but the quoted part is to do with the livelihood and precepts, not the attainments possible, a householder can not live by the rules of the mendicant communities due to the nature of the household life, how would a householder get by without money, or ability to shop for food, or the food requirements needed for certain work?
it is in essence saying if you are going to be a mendicant be a mendicant, if you are going to be a lay person be a lay person, sure there are some precepts which can be addopted by lay people but the entire set of rules can not be.


Hi Citta,

I have to take a different interpretation of the statement in question than you. To me, "bhikkhu practice" means the threefold training culminating in liberation, not things like robes, eating donated food and so on. The reason I think this makes sense is because following that statement, the Buddha instructs the lay disciple in this sutta towards the end of being "virtuous" and in addition to the end of attaining a rebirth in the deva plane rather than, and falling short of, liberation. To me, this means he is saying "A layperson cannot complete the threefold training (because the household life impedes it), but, falling short of that, here is what he can do -- be virtuous and attain a heavenly rebirth."

I was pointing out that although we know the tradition says the household life is full of impediments to liberation, it's not impossible to attain it from within said. That's the discrepancy.

Nonetheless, I like the sutta; it's concise and shows how to be virtuous and attain a good (even "shining" or "radiant") rebirth, and I like the parts about dana to the sangha, supporting your parents, and not encouraging others to break the five precepts. Neat.

please see the underlined section of my initial reply!
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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