Come now. It is habitual for all of us in daily life to hold that the cake is real, and due to avijja, believe that we are seeing and experiencing reality when we see the cake, when all we are experiencing are sankharas. That's all samsaric existence is - sankharas. No cake in loka. The cake is irrelevant - it is beyond range. But let's be brutally honest with ourselves - how often are we properly regarding experience as sankharas, and how often are we regarding the multifarious things of the world as real things that exist? This is no time for kidding ourselves - this is serious business.mikenz66 wrote:Yes, I know that. The "seeing" is still conditioned. What makes you think that anyone is assuming a "reality"?
Yes, they are, and I won't comment on unnamed teachers, but the Buddha and ven Nanananda speak well.mikenz66 wrote:The Buddha, Ven N, and other teachers are just telling us to strip back the layers and examine our experience.
The sekha is trying to break the deeply ingrained habit of regarding both of these these things (e.g. cake, self) as real. The sekha, with the potential to use the Dhamma eye, is attempting to exert the required effort to break down these habits/tendencies (anusaya) and get into the habit of using the Dhamma eye all the time. How that is done by the sekha, in practice, is explained below...mikenz66 wrote:You seem to be avoiding my statement that the sekha or arahant still has the "seeing" but not the concept of self. He/she still has the "whatever aising-dhamma cessation-dhamma", the "writing in water".
So what's the difference between the (fabricated) seeing and the (fabricated) self?
On the flipside, the practice is to stop remaining focused on cake and self. Instead, remain focused on sankharas themselves, and that nama-rupa/vinnana vortex. That's why I (and SN 12.15) keep saying that the view of "existence" diminishes Right View to an extent... because whilst "existence" or "non-existence" is being perceived (with respect to cake, self, anything...) rather than sankharas, progress is being stalled. Seeing paticcasamuppada is the middle way through perceiving "existence" (of cake and self) and "non-existence" (of cake and self). Note... and this is very important.... cake or self does not need to be disproved through any of this. We just need to stop regarding them as things that exist or don't, and remain focused on sankharas (i.e. what we are really experiencing) instead.SN 55.3 wrote:"Therefore, Dighavu, when you are established in these four factors of stream-entry, you should further develop six qualities conducive to clear knowing. Remain focused on inconstancy in all fabrications, percipient of stress in what is inconstant, percipient of not-self in what is stressful, percipient of abandoning, percipient of dispassion, percipient of cessation. That's how you should train yourself."
For the arahant, the Dhamma-eye is par for the course. Until then, the practice is as denoted above.mikenz66 wrote:It would appear to be quite important to know the difference, judging from the suttas, and from exposition such as the one I quoted.
Metta,
Retro.