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Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:40 am


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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:42 am


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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:44 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:45 am


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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby Brizzy » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:51 am

Ignorance is an intentional act.

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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:52 am


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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:00 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:00 am


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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:05 am


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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:26 am

Greetings,

Thanissaro Bhikkhu's own experience under his teacher is probably relevant in this regard...

Jhana Not by the Numbers
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... mbers.html

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:09 am


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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby farmer » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:19 am

Tilt is asking a good, specific question and getting only vague answers. Maybe that is because Venerable Thanissaro, rather than teaching specific types of breathing, leaves the meditator with a set of suggestions/questions to explore on his or her own. Those of us who have tried his approach know from experience what he is talking about, but our understanding is in the form of "muscle memory" rather than conceptual knowledge, which makes it hard to verbalize.

Maybe it will be helpful if I give a few concrete examples of ways I use breathing to support samatha:

* A long, deep, exaggerated breath is helpful for setting the tone at the beginning of sitting meditation. "Take a deep breath" is standard advice for someone who wants to clear anger or anxiety from their mind, so this is just a very natural way of "putting aside greed and distress with respect to the world."

*I tend to continue with deep in-breaths and slightly shorter, heavier out-breaths as long as I feel my mind wants to get involved with distractions. The deep breathing seems to clear out the bodily sensations associated with any anxiety, greed or ill will that get carried in from daily life, and provides a clear object for the mind to settle on.

* As I settle into concentration, it feels natural to let the breath slow, soften and become shallower. The in and out breaths seem more equal at this phase.

* If a distraction arises, it can be helpful to "breathe through" the corresponding sensation in the body. (That sentence makes a lot of sense to me, but may sound bizarre to you...)

* The habit of monitoring the quality of the breath carries through into daily life. If I am sub-consciously irritated by something, I will often notice the aversion first as a tightening in my breathing.

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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:55 am


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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:14 am


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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:24 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:30 am

Yes, thanks Farmer. Some of those are very familiar among the things I notice I do too in reaction to certain conditions. It's nice to see how we get common experiences/lessons out of our Dhamma practice... :group:

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:46 am


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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby marc108 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:26 pm

"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:38 pm


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Re: Thanissaro Bikkhu and manipulation of the breath

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:54 pm

Greetings Mike,

Thanks for sharing the quotes. I have a couple of quick questions with reference to what you've highlighted...

With regards to the first red highlighted quote, I've heard about some insight practitioners (I forget their lineage) who deliberately cultivate physical pain in order to give them physical sensations to work with. Have you heard of this practice, and if so, do you know of any quotes/texts etc. from the vipassana traditions that explain that practice of deliberately cultivating physical pain, juxtaposed against the need to make sure our body is at peace? I'm curious as to how the two things might be resolved.

With regards to the second highlight, I was just curious as to your logic behind choosing only to highlight number five? You introduce the full quote by saying it's regarding "fabrication of one's meditation practice", but to me, point 1-9 all pertain to fabrication of one's meditation practice. Did you call out #5 because it seems to correlate with Thanissaro Bhikkhu's "learn what works for you" mode of teaching, or is it something else?

Thanks.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine


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