The Secular Buddhist

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Moggalana
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The Secular Buddhist

Post by Moggalana »

The Secular Buddhist is a podcast about Secular Buddhism. So what's Secular Buddhism about?
Secular Buddhism :: Definition wrote: Secular Buddhism is concerned with the practice of Siddhattha Gotama’s four noble truths in this world. It encourages a naturalistic and pragmatic approach to the teaching, seeking to provide a framework for personal and social development within the cultural context of our time.
http://secularbuddhistassociation.com/a ... rinciples/
It's very similar to Secular Humanism but with an emphasis on the Buddha's teaching instead of the greco-roman philosophy:
Secular Humanism, alternatively known as Humanism (often with a capital H to distinguish it from other forms of humanism), is a secular philosophy. It embraces human reason, ethics, and justice while specifically rejecting religious dogma, supernaturalism, pseudoscience or superstition as the basis of morality and decision-making.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism
There are some very interesting interviews with Secular Buddhists (like Stephen Batchelor), Buddhist Sceptics (like Susan Blackmore) and scientists (like Rick Hanson, Britta Hölzel and others) who are studying the effects of meditation on the brain, mind and health.

So, if you are interested, do check it out!
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plwk
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Re: The Secular Buddhist

Post by plwk »

Groovy...is that the latest club in town? :tongue:
Moggalana
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Re: The Secular Buddhist

Post by Moggalana »

Buddhism is evolving ;-)
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Justsit
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Re: The Secular Buddhist

Post by Justsit »

"a framework for personal and social development..."

Ah, Buddhism-Lite.
More like "Buddhism devolving."
Moggalana
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Re: The Secular Buddhist

Post by Moggalana »

Or maybe it's Buddhism without all the unnecessary baggage? A Secular Buddhist is interested in the Four Noble Truths and developing sila, samadhi and panna in this very life. He doesn't belief in literal rebirth or supernatural powers because it is of no concern for his practice and life. But I'm not really interested in a debate, I just wanted to call attention to this podcast because I know there are at least some people here who hold similar views about this kind of things :)
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Cittasanto
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Re: The Secular Buddhist

Post by Cittasanto »

Is Secular Buddhism interested in accepting rebirth as a working hypothesis? or is it only interested in what agrees to its secular preferences?
and how does it know what to leave in and take out?
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
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daverupa
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Re: The Secular Buddhist

Post by daverupa »

Thai
Burmese
Sri Lankan
Cambodian
Laotian
Indian
Chinese
Japanese
Vietnamese
Secular(/Western?)
---

All of these are extant iterations of Buddhism. Certainly there are more (Nepalese, etc.). They all seem to know what to leave in, what to leave out, but there isn't perfect accord here.

Let's be wary of false dichotomies.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Moggalana
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Re: The Secular Buddhist

Post by Moggalana »

Cittasanto wrote:Is Secular Buddhism interested in accepting rebirth as a working hypothesis?
I guess one can choose it as working hypothesis if one feels inclined to do so. At the moment, no one can disproof rebirth just as no one can proof it (scientifically). You have three choices: accept it, reject it or put it aside. Whichever one you choose is a personal thing in my opinion. The question is: Does it make a difference? Or would it make a difference if you could be sure it was either true or not? And why do you need to belief in rebirth?
Cittasanto wrote:or is it only interested in what agrees to its secular preferences?
It looks at the teachings from a certain point of view. But so does every interpretation. In the case of Secular Buddhism, the lenses through which the teachings are understood are science and sceptical thinking. An orthodox interpretation on the other hand might be influenced by certain metaphysical views of a certain time or specific cultural conditionings.
Cittasanto wrote:and how does it know what to leave in and take out?
I don't know, I'm not a scholar but I think that a good place to start would be to look at those elements of the teachings that are shared by all traditions. Teachings like the Four Noble Truths, the Noble Eightfold Path and so forth. Those key teachings which survived the various translations and interpretations relatively unchanged are probably more important than teachings whice are modified through cultural conditioning.
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ground
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Re: The Secular Buddhist

Post by ground »

The way leading to the cessation of all buddhisms is just this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view... right concentration.

:anjali:
Buckwheat
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Re: The Secular Buddhist

Post by Buckwheat »

TMingyur wrote:The way leading to the cessation of all buddhisms is just this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view... right concentration.

:anjali:
I agree. I'm not going to cry over secular Buddhism even if that does sound like a ridiculous oxymoron (Military Intelligence?). As long as those practicioners agree that they must continually reassess their assumptions and eventually transcend the title "Buddhism" they should at least move forward down the path.

Does taking refuge and having conviction that the Buddha had genuine nirvana fit into secular Buddhism? Is it really just a form of Secular Humanism with a statue of Buddha as their figurehead? That could be construed as theft: stealing a carefully protected symbol of enlightenment and highjacking it for "worldly" purposes. Or not.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
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Kare
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Re: The Secular Buddhist

Post by Kare »

Moggalana wrote:It looks at the teachings from a certain point of view. But so does every interpretation. In the case of Secular Buddhism, the lenses through which the teachings are understood are science and sceptical thinking. An orthodox interpretation on the other hand might be influenced by certain metaphysical views of a certain time or specific cultural conditionings.
The different traditional interpretations of Buddhism are influenced by different local cultures - Indian, Chinese, Tibetan, Thai, etc. It only seems fair that Western people should be allowed to do what Asians do: interpret the Dhamma in the light of their own culture. And science and sceptical thinking are among the noblest strands of Western culture. Therefore I think that this Secular Buddhism is just what we need here in the West.
Mettāya,
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Justsit
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Re: The Secular Buddhist

Post by Justsit »

Then we're right back to the beginning of the rebirth debate, no?

Think about it...if there is no karma and no rebirth, then the only "life" is this one. All actions/consequences will play out in one 70+/- year period. If that is the case, then the only chance of enlightenment is right now, right in this very life, yes?
If you don't "get it" now, you're done.

The name "secular Buddhist" is misnomer. In what way does the group follow the Buddha's teachings?
Does the SB propose the end of suffering in one lifetime?
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retrofuturist
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Re: The Secular Buddhist

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
TMingyur wrote:The way leading to the cessation of all buddhisms is just this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view... right concentration.
Well said, TMingyur!

"Is this the Noble Eightfold Path, which leads to benefit, and is good in the beginning, middle and end?"

"Or is this attachment to rites, rituals, and ceremonies, which binds one to remaining a worldling?"


Regardless of external forms, these are the sort of things that ought to be considered when assessing such things for ourselves.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Ted Meissner
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Re: The Secular Buddhist

Post by Ted Meissner »

Many of the questions being asked might be answered on the Guiding Principles page:

http://secularbuddhistassociation.com/a ... rinciples/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In essence, we are following the eightfold path, and are finding ways to engage with the teaching and practice that may resonate with contemporary culture. For many of us, that is a non religious approach in which assertions require evidence in order to allow a common point of reference. We're perfectly willing to accept rebirth, but as we also question the assertions of other religious traditions about what happens after death of the body, we equally should question our own in the spirit of sincere, honest, free inquiry.

Please note, it is not in any way a denial of traditional practices -- most of us come from traditional, religious settings. We simply find pragmatic application of the Buddha's teaching can be done quite well, providing beneficial transformation in how we release the causes of suffering, without an adherence to ideas from a cultural context not our own.

Thanks for the discussion, this is wonderful to see lively talk and sharing!
Justsit
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Re: The Secular Buddhist

Post by Justsit »

Ted Meissner wrote:... without an adherence to ideas from a cultural context not our own.
There's a difference between not adhering to cultural context and not adhering to religious context.
How does SB delineate that difference?
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