Sutta on methods of sense restraint?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Sutta on methods of sense restraint?

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Hello daverupa and Cittasanto,

Many thanks for your kind help with my thread Engllish translation of SN20.10/10 Biḷārasuttaṃ ? (http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=11503" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). Is "upaṭṭhitāya satiyā" translated as "mindfulness established" or "unremitting mindfulness established"? Would the established mindfulness refer to one of the four mindfulness, likely mindfulness of body (postures/activities or breathing)? If so, in this sutta the Buddha taught us an actual method how to restrain the senses during daily activities.

Question to all friends:

Are there other suttas where the Buddha taught actual method(s) on how to practice sense restraint, in addition to mindfulness of postures/activities and focusing on the drawbacks of sense objects?

Metta to all!

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Re: Sutta on methods of sense restraint?

Post by Cittasanto »

starter wrote:Hello daverupa and Cittasanto,

Many thanks for your kind help with my thread Engllish translation of SN20.10/10 Biḷārasuttaṃ ? (http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=11503" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). Is "upaṭṭhitāya satiyā" translated as "mindfulness established" or "unremitting mindfulness established"? Would the established mindfulness refer to one of the four mindfulness, likely mindfulness of body (postures/activities or breathing)? If so, in this sutta the Buddha taught us an actual method how to restrain the senses during daily activities.

Question to all friends:

Are there other suttas where the Buddha taught actual method(s) on how to practice sense restraint, in addition to mindfulness of postures/activities and focusing on the drawbacks of sense objects?

Metta to all!
Starter
Try these texts from Access to insights list?
Restraint. See also Celibacy; Moderation; Contentment with little; Nekkhamma (renunciation); Sensuality.
Definition of ~: SN 35.206
Benefits of ~: Dhp 7, Dhp 9, Dhp 116, Dhp 360, Dhp 362
As the best protection against harm: SN 3.5
As a quality that distinguishes the true contemplative: MN 39, Dhp 391
~ paves the way to Nibbana: Dhp 289
As a refuge: AN 3.52
As a support to meditation: DN 2
Like dressing a wound: MN 33, AN 11.18
Like a tortoise protecting itself by withdrawing safely into its shell: SN 35.199
Contentment with little: DN 11
A deva encourages a monk to restrain his wandering mind: SN 9.1
Dhamma talks by Thanissaro Bhikkhu: Meditations: Forty Dhamma Talks; Meditations 2; Meditations 3; Meditations 4; Meditations 5
"Stop, Look, and Let Go" (Kee)

personally I have found just not paying attention to more than what I am doing the best in this regard, if something is happening I don't follow it, I just keep with what I am doing!
it is essentially practicing the clear knowing & postures sections of the satipatthana sutta or the dhamma section on the senses.

also worth bearing in mind is this discourse http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Then, Bahiya, you should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That is how you should train yourself. When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bahiya, there is no you in terms of that. When there is no you in terms of that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress."
which was the main reference to mind while I was more stringently practising.
Last edited by Cittasanto on Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
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Re: Sutta on methods of sense restraint?

Post by Sam Vara »

Interesting question, as I have seen a lot of references to sense-restraint in the suttas, but little on techniques. You might consider the section on "avoiding" in the Sabbasava Sutta (MN 2):
And what are the fermentations to be abandoned by avoiding? There is the case where a monk, reflecting appropriately, avoids a wild elephant, a wild horse, a wild bull, a wild dog, a snake, a stump, a bramble patch, a chasm, a cliff, a cesspool, an open sewer. Reflecting appropriately, he avoids sitting in the sorts of unsuitable seats, wandering to the sorts of unsuitable habitats, and associating with the sorts of bad friends that would make his knowledgeable friends in the holy life suspect him of evil conduct. The fermentations, vexation, or fever that would arise if he were not to avoid these things do not arise for him when he avoids them. These are called the fermentations to be abandoned by avoiding.
There is also reference in AN X 61 to the requirements or nutriment for restraint of the senses:
And what is the nutriment for restraint of the senses? Mindfulness and alertness...
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Re: Sutta on methods of sense restraint?

Post by Cittasanto »

starter wrote:Hello daverupa and Cittasanto,
Is "upaṭṭhitāya satiyā" translated as "mindfulness established" or "unremitting mindfulness established"? Would the established mindfulness refer to one of the four mindfulness, likely mindfulness of body (postures/activities or breathing)? If so, in this sutta the Buddha taught us an actual method how to restrain the senses during daily activities.

Starter
no
upaṭṭhitāya = got ready; arrived; presented; served by.
paccupaṭṭhitā - pressent

can you provide the line in english & pali?

sorry ignore that, had a look at the pali and I would follow the translation I provided, but would need to reflect for something I wos more comfortable with in relation to related words etc. but with a quick look maybe establishing mindfulness? or sets-up mindfulness?

the sutta actually gives you the answer (body speech or mind) it would refer to all the foundations as these are ones home resort as found in the quail simile.
Last edited by Cittasanto on Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: Sutta on methods of sense restraint?

Post by Virgo »

starter wrote: Are there other suttas where the Buddha taught actual method(s) on how to practice sense restraint, in addition to mindfulness of postures/activities and focusing on the drawbacks of sense objects?

Metta to all!

Starter
Hi Starter,

It's all about the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind and contact between them and their respective objects which leads to feeling, craving, the clinging, etc. For example, if you see a form that excites the eye as you walk by it, you do not let yourself become enamored by it, instead you keep your eyes focused ahead and slightly down, a "plow-yokes length ahead" (12-15 feet ahead or about 3 - 5 meters, roughly), instead of on the object. And so forth.

As it says in the Marapasa Sutta, about Mara:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

"There are forms, monks, cognizable via the eye — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. If a monk relishes them, welcomes them, & remains fastened to them, he is said to be a monk fettered to forms cognizable by the eye. He has gone over to Mara's camp; he has come under Mara's power. The Evil One can do with him as he wills.

"There are sounds cognizable via the ear...

"There are aromas cognizable via the nose...

"There are flavors cognizable via the tongue...

"There are tactile sensations cognizable via the body...

"There are ideas cognizable via the intellect — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. If a monk relishes them, welcomes them, & remains fastened to them, he is said to be a monk fettered to ideas cognizable by the intellect. He has gone over to Mara's camp; he has come under Mara's power. The Evil One can do with him as he wills.

"Now, there are forms cognizable via the eye — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. If a monk does not relish them, welcome them, or remain fastened to them, he is said to be a monk freed from forms cognizable by the eye. He has not gone over to Mara's camp; he has not come under Mara's power. The Evil One cannot do with him as he wills.

"There are sounds cognizable via the ear...

"There are aromas cognizable via the nose...

"There are flavors cognizable via the tongue...

"There are tactile sensations cognizable via the body...

"There are ideas cognizable via the intellect — agreeable, pleasing, charming, endearing, fostering desire, enticing. If a monk does not relish them, welcome them, or remain fastened to them, he is said to be a monk freed from ideas cognizable by the intellect. He has not gone over to Mara's camp; he has not come under Mara's power. The Evil One cannot do with him as he wills."
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Re: Sutta on methods of sense restraint?

Post by starter »

Hi friends,

Your helpful input has been very much appreciated. As to the following method:

"... personally I have found just not paying attention to more than what I am doing the best in this regard, if something is happening I don't follow it, I just keep with what I am doing!"

It's indeed a good way to "close the sense doors" to the objects that are not what we are engaging in. However, I can lose myself by being completely absorbed in the tasks at hand (thinking, writing, talking ...) and become so attached to them. That's why I thought being fully aware of what we are doing (postures/daily activities) is not enough for working lay people, and then tried to use awareness of breathing to keep the mind centered inside instead of flowing out to the tasks at hand without control.

Looking forward to more good methods. Metta to all,

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Re: Sutta on methods of sense restraint?

Post by Cittasanto »

well it is a matter of appropriate attention!
if your livelihood is inline with dhamma you will have no reason to stray away into things which are harmful, and if you do, reflecting wisely and applying right effort will bring you back on track.

with anything you do by body speech and mind reflect before, during and after, is this harmful to oneself, another, both, or neither. if it is not harmful continue!

just because something is not related to Buddhism doesn't mean it goes against Dhamma. If you look at the eightfold path the detail of each of the path factors is quite vague in many respects, it doesn't talk about what one is talking about or what one is doing specifically, but is gives a guideline for judging whether what you are doing is in line with the dhamma or not.
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: Sutta on methods of sense restraint?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Take a look at the method of bare awareness taught to Malukyaputta and Bahiya Daruci
“Na so rajjati rūpesu, rūpam disvā patissato;
Virattacitto vedeti, tañca nājjhossa titthati.”

“Passion remains undeveloped in him who recollects with mindfulness the form that he has seen. Thus freed from lust, he refuses to imbibe it.”
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Re: Sutta on methods of sense restraint?

Post by Cittasanto »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Take a look at the method of bare awareness taught to Malukyaputta and Bahiya Daruci
“Na so rajjati rūpesu, rūpam disvā patissato;
Virattacitto vedeti, tañca nājjhossa titthati.”

“Passion remains undeveloped in him who recollects with mindfulness the form that he has seen. Thus freed from lust, he refuses to imbibe it.”
Bhante I don't know why but I definitely have a deeper appreciation for your posts!
do you know a sutta reference?
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: Sutta on methods of sense restraint?

Post by daverupa »

Cittasanto wrote:a sutta reference?
SN 35.95 for Malunkyaputta, Udana 1.10 for Bahiya.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Sutta on methods of sense restraint?

Post by Cittasanto »

daverupa wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:a sutta reference?
SN 35.95 for Malunkyaputta, Udana 1.10 for Bahiya.
:anjali: :anjali: :anjali:
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: Sutta on methods of sense restraint?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Take a look at the method of bare awareness taught to Malukyaputta and Bahiya Daruci
“Na so rajjati rūpesu, rūpam disvā patissato;
Virattacitto vedeti, tañca nājjhossa titthati.”

“Passion remains undeveloped in him who recollects with mindfulness the form that he has seen. Thus freed from lust, he refuses to imbibe it.”
Well said bhante.

It is better to follow the Buddha's advice and be mindful of passions.

It is better to refuse to imbibe in, rather than fight with, the world.

:computerproblem:

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: Sutta on methods of sense restraint?

Post by ground »

starter wrote: Are there other suttas where the Buddha taught actual method(s) on how to practice sense restraint, in addition to mindfulness of postures/activities and focusing on the drawbacks of sense objects?
Through mindfulness of feelings, mind and dhammas in Satipatthana Sutta which is no other sutta but just another method from that mindfulness sutta.

Kind regards
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Re: Sutta on methods of sense restraint?

Post by starter »

Thanks a lot for all the helpful input. I'd like to share with you MN 152, in which the Buddha taught us some more detailed methods on how to develop sense restraint.

MN 152: …
The Blessed One said: "Now how, Ananda, in the discipline of a noble one is there the unexcelled development of the faculties? There is the case where, when seeing a form with the eye, there arises in a monk what is agreeable, what is disagreeable, what is agreeable & disagreeable. He discerns that 'This agreeable thing has arisen in me, this disagreeable thing... this agreeable & disagreeable thing has arisen in me. And that is compounded, gross, dependently co-arisen. But this is peaceful, this is exquisite, i.e., equanimity.' With that, the arisen agreeable thing... disagreeable thing... agreeable & disagreeable thing ceases, and equanimity takes its stance. Just as a man with good eyes, having closed them, might open them; or having opened them, might close them, that is how quickly, how rapidly, how easily, no matter what it refers to, the arisen agreeable thing... disagreeable thing... agreeable & disagreeable thing ceases, and equanimity takes its stance. In the discipline of a noble one, this is called the unexcelled development of the faculties with regard to forms cognizable by the eye.
[Focus on the drawbacks of the sense objects (anicca/dukkha/anatta) and the sublime peace of nibbana]

...

"And how is one a person in training, someone following the way? There is the case where, when seeing a form with the eye, there arises in a monk what is agreeable, what is disagreeable, what is agreeable & disagreeable. He feels horrified, humiliated, & disgusted with the arisen agreeable thing... disagreeable thing... agreeable & disagreeable thing. …
"This is how one is a person in training, someone following the way.

...

If he wants, he remains percipient of loathsomeness in the presence of what is not loathsome. If he wants, he remains percipient of unloathsomeness in the presence of what is loathsome. If he wants, he remains percipient of loathsomeness in the presence of what is not loathsome & what is. If he wants, he remains percipient of unloathsomeness in the presence of what is loathsome & what is not. If he wants — in the presence of what is loathsome & what is not — cutting himself off from both, he remains equanimous, alert, & mindful."
[I'd like to know if the English translation of this paragraph is accurate or not, since it differs from the equivalent sutta in Chinese Agama (SA 282)
]
...

Please share with us the suttas you know which teach the methods of sense restraint. Metta to all,

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Metta to
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Re: Sutta on methods of sense restraint?

Post by starter »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Take a look at the method of bare awareness taught to Malukyaputta and Bahiya Daruci
“Na so rajjati rūpesu, rūpam disvā patissato;
Virattacitto vedeti, tañca nājjhossa titthati.”

“Passion remains undeveloped in him who recollects with mindfulness the form that he has seen. Thus freed from lust, he refuses to imbibe it.”
Hello Bhante,

Many thanks for your kind help. I'd like to share with you some other translations of the quoted verse:

Thanissaro Bhikkhu: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... .than.html
Not impassioned with forms
— seeing a form with mindfulness firm —
dispassioned in mind,
one knows
and doesn't remain fastened there.


Maurice O'Connell Walshe: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... .wlsh.html
He who's not inflamed by things he sees,
Seeing forms retains his mindfulness,
Not in passion's grip, simply feels,
On him clinging cannot get a hold.

"When, firmly mindful, one sees a form,
One is not inflamed by lust for forms;
On experiences it with a dispassionate mind
and does not remain holding it tightly." -- Ven. Bodhi's translation

Would it be possible that this verse may suggest that one should fare mindfully with a dispassionate mind (e.g. by seeing the form as anicca/dukkha/anatta, as taught in Sutta 152) instead of by bare awareness of the form? Would the teaching "When there is no you in connection with that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two" likely mean the perception of anatta when seeing a form and etc.? Would bare attention alone on form and etc. be enough for ending Dhukka?

With gratitude and metta,

Starter
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