Awareness as refuge?

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible.
User avatar
Ngawang Drolma.
Posts: 805
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:38 pm

Awareness as refuge?

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:49 pm

Please pardon my rudeness in advance for slapping a Mahayana thingie in here.

But mindfulness as a form of refuge? What say you, my Theravadan friends?
I've never quite gone this far with stressing the importance of mindfulness.


Awareness is your refuge:

Awareness of the changingness of feelings,
of attitudes, of moods, of material change
and emotional change:

Stay with that, because it's a refuge that is
indestructible.
It's not something that changes.
It's a refuge you can trust in.

This refuge is not something that you create.
It's not a creation. It's not an ideal.
It's very practical and very simple, but
easily overlooked or not noticed.

When you're mindful,
you're beginning to notice,
it's like this.

Ajahn Sumedho

(Source: From "Intuitive Awareness", 2004 )

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 20088
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001

Re: Awareness as refuge?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:01 pm

But mindfulness as a form of refuge? What say you, my Theravadan friends?
I've never quite gone this far with stressing the importance of mindfulness.


Every other practice is subservient to mindfulness.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

User avatar
clw_uk
Posts: 3591
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:36 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: Wales, United Kingdom

Re: Awareness as refuge?

Postby clw_uk » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:36 pm

Greetings


Ajahn Sumedho has a good talk on it here


http://www.dhammatalks.org.uk/sumed.php


The Dhamma talk is named "awareness is your refuge" if you would like to listen to it


Metta
“The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent, everything becomes clear and undisguised." Verses on the Faith Mind, Sengcan

User avatar
Ben
Site Admin
Posts: 16352
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001
Location: Land of the sleeping gods
Contact:

Re: Awareness as refuge?

Postby Ben » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:54 pm

Hi Drolma

Nice topic!
Ledi Sayadaw, a teacher within my own tradition, says something similar in his work Manual of the Excellent Man:

Taking refuge is of two kinds: by hearsay and by direct knowledge. Taking refuge through blind faith in the noble attributes of the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Saṅgha, but without right view, is by hearsay. It is so called because the act of taking refuge is not complete in so far as the worshipper has not actually “seen” the Buddha, the Dhamma, or the Saṅgha; he has not perceived the teaching; he has not been in contact with the teaching. In common parlance, he has not got the message.

Consider the Buddha’s admonition to Vakkali, the devoted bhikkhu who spent all his time in worshipful admiration of the Buddha, “Vakkali, he who does not see the Dhamma does not see me.” That is why taking refuge in the Three Gems without empirical knowledge of the Dhamma, i.e. insight into the arising and passing away of phenomena, relies on hearsay only. It is not taking refuge with direct knowledge.

Taking refuge with direct knowledge means imbibing the Buddha’s teaching with right view by perceiving the aggregates, the sense bases, and the elements, and their arising and cessation, which alone will destroy the delusion about a “self” and doubts about the Four Noble Truths. This kind of going for refuge is the real refuge, for the worshipper is actually in contact with the Three Gems.

“One understands suffering, its origin, its cessation and the Noble Eightfold Path leading to the end of suffering. This, indeed, is a secure refuge, this is the supreme refuge. Taking refuge in this, one gains release from the cycle of existences.” (Dhp. vv.191-192.)


For more: http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Ledi/Uttam ... efuge.html

Kind regards

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR
Buddhist Life Stories of Australia
e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com

floating_abu
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:50 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6

Re: Awareness as refuge?

Postby floating_abu » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:19 pm

clw_uk wrote:Greetings


Ajahn Sumedho has a good talk on it here


http://www.dhammatalks.org.uk/sumed.php


The Dhamma talk is named "awareness is your refuge" if you would like to listen to it


Metta


Love that guy. Thanks clw_uk. :thumbsup:

floating_abu
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:50 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6

Re: Awareness as refuge?

Postby floating_abu » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:21 pm

Ngawang Drolma wrote:Please pardon my rudeness in advance for slapping a Mahayana thingie in here.

But mindfulness as a form of refuge? What say you, my Theravadan friends?
I've never quite gone this far with stressing the importance of mindfulness.


Awareness is your refuge:

Awareness of the changingness of feelings,
of attitudes, of moods, of material change
and emotional change:

Stay with that, because it's a refuge that is
indestructible.
It's not something that changes.
It's a refuge you can trust in.

This refuge is not something that you create.
It's not a creation. It's not an ideal.
It's very practical and very simple, but
easily overlooked or not noticed.

When you're mindful,
you're beginning to notice,
it's like this.

Ajahn Sumedho

(Source: From "Intuitive Awareness", 2004 )


Luang Por is spot on.

:namaste:

rowyourboat
Posts: 1949
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Location: London, UK

Re: Awareness as refuge?

Postby rowyourboat » Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:45 pm

we take refuge in the dhamma- ie the practice of it, along with the other 2- the buddha and the sangha - so i see nothing wrong with this
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 14814
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1001
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Awareness as refuge?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu May 14, 2009 1:20 am

Greetings Drolma,
Ngawang Drolma wrote:But mindfulness as a form of refuge? What say you, my Theravadan friends?

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's "refuge" of the status provided to the Triple Gem, however, mindfulness is an integral component of Dhamma... so when taking refuge in mindfulness, you're taking refuge in the Dhamma, and when you're taking refuge in the Dhamma, you're also taking refuge in the Buddha and the Sangha.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)

User avatar
pink_trike
Posts: 1038
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:29 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 1
Contact:

Re: Awareness as refuge?

Postby pink_trike » Thu May 14, 2009 1:24 am

Ben wrote:Hi Drolma

Nice topic!
Ledi Sayadaw, a teacher within my own tradition, says something similar in his work Manual of the Excellent Man:

Taking refuge is of two kinds: by hearsay and by direct knowledge. Taking refuge through blind faith in the noble attributes of the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Saṅgha, but without right view, is by hearsay. It is so called because the act of taking refuge is not complete in so far as the worshipper has not actually “seen” the Buddha, the Dhamma, or the Saṅgha; he has not perceived the teaching; he has not been in contact with the teaching. In common parlance, he has not got the message.

Consider the Buddha’s admonition to Vakkali, the devoted bhikkhu who spent all his time in worshipful admiration of the Buddha, “Vakkali, he who does not see the Dhamma does not see me.” That is why taking refuge in the Three Gems without empirical knowledge of the Dhamma, i.e. insight into the arising and passing away of phenomena, relies on hearsay only. It is not taking refuge with direct knowledge.

Taking refuge with direct knowledge means imbibing the Buddha’s teaching with right view by perceiving the aggregates, the sense bases, and the elements, and their arising and cessation, which alone will destroy the delusion about a “self” and doubts about the Four Noble Truths. This kind of going for refuge is the real refuge, for the worshipper is actually in contact with the Three Gems.

“One understands suffering, its origin, its cessation and the Noble Eightfold Path leading to the end of suffering. This, indeed, is a secure refuge, this is the supreme refuge. Taking refuge in this, one gains release from the cycle of existences.” (Dhp. vv.191-192.)


For more: http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Ledi/Uttam ... efuge.html

Kind regards

Ben


Great quote.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.


Return to “Discovering Theravāda”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest