Higher power

A place to discuss health and fitness, healthy diets. A fit body makes for a fit mind.

Higher power

Postby greggorious » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:00 pm

Hi there, I'm thinking of going back into AA again as I keep relapsing back into drinking. I've tried various methods but they don't seem to last for that long.
As far as the first step goes, I don't mind admitting powerlessness over alcohol, as I see it, my ego is powerless over many things. However I don't know what to do about a higher power. In AA literature it's more than obvious they are talking about God. Plus I have spoken to Buddhists before who say there is no higher power other than your own Buddha nature, some even say that AA is completely against Buddhist principles.
I'm not suggesting you give me a higher power, I just don't know what to make of it.
"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah
greggorious
 
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:40 pm

Re: Higher power

Postby bodom » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:11 pm

I highly recommend checking this book out!

A Burning Desire: Dharma God and the Path of Recovery

A Burning Desire is a gift for those who struggle with the Twelve Step program’s focus on the need to surrender to a Higher Power. Taking a radical departure from traditional views of God, Western or Eastern, author Kevin Griffin neither accepts Christian beliefs in a Supreme Being nor Buddhist non-theism, but rather forges a refreshing, sensible, and accessible Middle Way. Griffin shows how the Dharma, the teachings of the Buddha, can be understood as a Higher Power. Karma, mindfulness, impermanence, and the Eightfold Path itself are revealed as powerful forces that can be accessed through meditation and inquiry.


http://www.amazon.com/Burning-Desire-Dh ... 1401923216

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
User avatar
bodom
 
Posts: 4600
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Higher power

Postby David2 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:13 pm

some even say that AA is completely against Buddhist principles.


I think this is wrong, AA does not go against Buddhist principles at all and it can be helpful for people.

I've tried various methods but they don't seem to last for that long.


Did you try practicing daily meditation for some time?

Going to AA is very good, but practicing meditation is also important in my opinion.
David2
 
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:09 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Higher power

Postby bodom » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:20 pm

David2 wrote:Going to AA is very good, but practicing meditation is also important in my opinion.


Its also part of the 12 steps:

Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.


:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
User avatar
bodom
 
Posts: 4600
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Higher power

Postby greggorious » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:21 pm

Thanks for your replies. I'll check out that book bodom, thanks.
"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah
greggorious
 
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:40 pm

Re: Higher power

Postby Justsit » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:26 pm

A Buddhist’s Non-Theist 12 Steps:

We admitted our addictive craving over alcohol, and recognized its consequences in our lives.

Came to believe that a power other than self could restore us to wholeness.

Made a decision to go for refuge to this other power as we understood it.

Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

Admitted to ourselves and another human being the exact moral nature of our past.

Became entirely ready to work at transforming ourselves.

With the assistance of others and our own firm resolve, we transformed unskillful aspects of ourselves and cultivated positive ones.

Made a list of all persons we had harmed.

Made direct amends to such people where possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. In addition, made a conscientious effort to forgive all those who harmed us.

Continue to maintain awareness of our actions and motives, and when we acted unskillfully promptly admitted it.

Engaged through the practice of meditation to improve our conscious contact with our true selves, and seeking that beyond self. Also used prayer as a means to cultivate positive attitudes and states of mind.

Having gained spiritual insight as a result of these steps, we practice these principles in all areas of our lives, and make this message available to others in need of recovery.

from http://realisticrecovery.wordpress.com/
Justsit
 
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:41 pm

Re: Higher power

Postby Ferox » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:51 pm

when I looked into over eaters anonymous I came into this little debate as well.. I've read that some may use the dhamma itself as the higher power..
-just one more being treading the ancient path of Dhamma-
User avatar
Ferox
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:16 am
Location: New Jersey, USA

Re: Higher power

Postby Dan74 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:01 pm

There is an alternative to AA, called Smart Recovery, but I've seen AA work for Buddhists too.

Higher power is what is perceived to be beyond the ego, which is a great deal! You can call it your Buddha nature since you already like that notion or your emergent new and better adjusted self. You can even see it as your refuge in the Triple Gem.
_/|\_
User avatar
Dan74
 
Posts: 2626
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Higher power

Postby Kim OHara » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:42 pm

Dan74 wrote: You can even see it as your refuge in the Triple Gem.

Others have suggested this in similar threads here in the past, and it makes sense to me.

:namaste:
Kim
User avatar
Kim OHara
 
Posts: 3040
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Higher power

Postby greggorious » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:10 am

Thanks for your replies :)
"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah
greggorious
 
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:40 pm

Re: Higher power

Postby Ella » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:22 pm

I am in AA but they don't know am Buddhist ...i have only just started to go there
i think i will check out that book too
:anjali:
User avatar
Ella
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 1:34 am

Re: Higher power

Postby Yana » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:25 am

greggorious wrote:Hi there, I'm thinking of going back into AA again as I keep relapsing back into drinking. I've tried various methods but they don't seem to last for that long.
As far as the first step goes, I don't mind admitting powerlessness over alcohol, as I see it, my ego is powerless over many things. However I don't know what to do about a higher power. In AA literature it's more than obvious they are talking about God. Plus I have spoken to Buddhists before who say there is no higher power other than your own Buddha nature, some even say that AA is completely against Buddhist principles.
I'm not suggesting you give me a higher power, I just don't know what to make of it.


Try seeing the higher power as yourself...the infinite possibility that you can achieve..i mean sometimes i believe in every good thing i know...from God to angel to inspirational people and moments.. just to give me enough strength to do something and after i do it i let it go knowing that that was all me...i took that step..i made it happen!

okay maybe you can try this also... :hug:
Life is preparing for Death
Yana
 
Posts: 397
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:45 am

Re: Higher power

Postby Ella » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:26 pm

Yana wrote:
greggorious wrote:Hi there, I'm thinking of going back into AA again as I keep relapsing back into drinking. I've tried various methods but they don't seem to last for that long.
As far as the first step goes, I don't mind admitting powerlessness over alcohol, as I see it, my ego is powerless over many things. However I don't know what to do about a higher power. In AA literature it's more than obvious they are talking about God. Plus I have spoken to Buddhists before who say there is no higher power other than your own Buddha nature, some even say that AA is completely against Buddhist principles.
I'm not suggesting you give me a higher power, I just don't know what to make of it.


Try seeing the higher power as yourself...the infinite possibility that you can achieve..i mean sometimes i believe in every good thing i know...from God to angel to inspirational people and moments.. just to give me enough strength to do something and after i do it i let it go knowing that that was all me...i took that step..i made it happen!

okay maybe you can try this also... :hug:


I cant see myself as a higher power because i have low self esteem and dont think of myself in that way at all ...so am unsure about myself as my higher power
so am unsure what to have as my higher power ... apart from my dad i think he could be my higher power ...yet am unsure if that is ok with buddhism
User avatar
Ella
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 1:34 am

Re: Higher power

Postby rowboat » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:48 am

greggorious there is an alternative to the 12-step Program model called Life-Ring Secular Recovery: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LifeRing_Secular_Recovery
http://lifering.org/find-meetings/
Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
Ud 5.5
User avatar
rowboat
 
Posts: 428
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:31 am
Location: Brentwood Bay, British Columbia

Re: Higher power

Postby danieLion » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:19 am

Yana wrote:Try seeing the higher power as yourself...
I don't think this would jive with with the "self-will run riot" principle in AA.
Goodwill
Daniel
danieLion
 
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Higher power

Postby danieLion » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:29 am

bodom wrote:I highly recommend checking this book out!

A Burning Desire: Dharma God and the Path of Recovery

A Burning Desire is a gift for those who struggle with the Twelve Step program’s focus on the need to surrender to a Higher Power. Taking a radical departure from traditional views of God, Western or Eastern, author Kevin Griffin neither accepts Christian beliefs in a Supreme Being nor Buddhist non-theism, but rather forges a refreshing, sensible, and accessible Middle Way. Griffin shows how the Dharma, the teachings of the Buddha, can be understood as a Higher Power. Karma, mindfulness, impermanence, and the Eightfold Path itself are revealed as powerful forces that can be accessed through meditation and inquiry.


http://www.amazon.com/Burning-Desire-Dh ... 1401923216

:anjali:

Taking the dhamma (or the Buddha or the Sangha) as your higher power is dangerous. The Buddha recommended 11 "steps"--not 12. The dhamma has nothing to do with the spiritual awakening the authors of the Big Book (of AA) were recommending. The dhamma is visible here and now, not somewhere "higher".

Listen to Gil Fronsdal's Views of the Dharma at http://www.audiodharma.org/talks/audio_player/2929.html and reflect on what I've said avbove. A good sample section if you don't want to listen to the whole thing is between minute markers 14:58 and 17:00.
Goodwill
danieLion
 
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Higher power

Postby mirco » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:37 pm

greggorious wrote:Hi there, I'm thinking of going back into AA again as I keep relapsing back into drinking. I've tried various methods but they don't seem to last for that long.

As far as the first step goes, I don't mind admitting powerlessness over alcohol, as I see it, my ego is powerless over many things. However I don't know what to do about a higher power.

Dear Greg,

whatever poeple say, it is always a Higher Power of everyones own understanding. No rules for that. No christian good. No religion at all. Just a spiritual program.

And as I understand the program, you take what works for you and leave the rest. And if going to meetings helps staying sober.... . Admitting powerlessness is (only) the first part of step one. Going to the meeting completes it.

And if you don't like AA, there's NA ("...powerless over addiction...")

Hugs 'n' best wishes
:-)
I get what I give
User avatar
mirco
 
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:12 pm

Re: Higher power

Postby mirco » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:41 pm

Yana wrote:Try seeing the higher power as yourself...the infinite possibility that you can achieve..i mean sometimes i believe in every good thing i know...from God to angel to inspirational people and moments.. just to give me enough strength to do something and after i do it i let it go knowing that that was all me...i took that step..i made it happen! okay maybe you can try this also... :hug:

Self centeredness is one of the strongest source for problems in life.
Working the twelve step program can be of great help to overcome that.

:-)
I get what I give
User avatar
mirco
 
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:12 pm

Re: Higher power

Postby Yana » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:58 pm

mirco wrote:
Yana wrote:Try seeing the higher power as yourself...the infinite possibility that you can achieve..i mean sometimes i believe in every good thing i know...from God to angel to inspirational people and moments.. just to give me enough strength to do something and after i do it i let it go knowing that that was all me...i took that step..i made it happen! okay maybe you can try this also... :hug:

Self centeredness is one of the strongest source for problems in life.
Working the twelve step program can be of great help to overcome that.

:-)


I don't think relying on ourselves to get better is being self centered? I mean did The Buddha think he was being self centered when he relied on his own actions to attain enlightment?.. or would you rather he just sat down and Prayed to some God to give it to him?At the end of the day .."you" are resonsible for "your"self,your own actions,your own salavtion,your own recovery and wellbeing...i mean..no one can do that for you.You have to use whatever resources you can get to get better..whether it's having faith or thinking positive or the twelve step program...as for believing in yourself..that you can achieve the very best...there's nothing self centered about that really.
Life is preparing for Death
Yana
 
Posts: 397
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:45 am

Re: Higher power

Postby bodom » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:55 pm

danieLion wrote:Taking the dhamma (or the Buddha or the Sangha) as your higher power is dangerous. The Buddha recommended 11 "steps"--not 12. The dhamma has nothing to do with the spiritual awakening the authors of the Big Book (of AA) were recommending. The dhamma is visible here and now, not somewhere "higher".


Higher Power: Buddhists, “God”, & the 12 Steps
http://news.northwestdharma.org/Summer2 ... 2Steps.php

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
User avatar
bodom
 
Posts: 4600
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Next

Return to Wellness, Diet & Fitness

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests