DarwidHalim wrote:Good action is as bad as bad action. Both of them are the culprit of the wheel of samsara.
In your experience, do the "parameters" of sīla (as presented in the Suttas) always give you clear-cut guidance, or do you often struggle with ambiguity in ethical decisions using sīla as a guide?
Ferox wrote:...who knows what the Buddha would of done/said in this situation. If he thought that there is much suffering in life and humans kill each other all the time so this is nothing new and no reason to break precepts, I could almost understand that perspective
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Vepacitta...,
Daniel's post asked...In your experience, do the "parameters" of sīla (as presented in the Suttas) always give you clear-cut guidance, or do you often struggle with ambiguity in ethical decisions using sīla as a guide?
Presumably he'll allow that to be extended to the Vinaya for the Bhikkhu, and so on....
tiltbillings wrote:One should not lie to Nazis?danieLion wrote:mikenz66 wrote:Hi Daniel,
I'll listen to it later but perhaps you could say what some of the issues are that were raised?
Sure. The example Ven. Bodhi used was the Germans who lied to the Nazis about the Jews they were hiding.
We should be absolutely relativistic based upon the circumstamnce and one's moral wisdom. Got it.Virgo wrote:]
To this end, I feel it is important to understand that Buddhists are (or should be, in my opinion, after years of study and practice) moral absolutists first and foremost. It is also just as important to understand that moral absolutists should be able to use their own wisdom to pick the lesser of two evils in some cases and choose one action to prevent another.
danieLion wrote:In his lecture on the Ambalaṭṭhikārāhulovāda Sutta (MN 61) to be found at
http://bodhimonastery.org/a-systematic- ... ikaya.html
and starting around the 10:30 minute mark and ending around the 19:00 minute mark, Ven. Bodhi discusses the actual complexity of most moral choices, and the reality that sīla is not always cut and dry.
mikenz66 wrote:Is pontificating about complex moral choices a waste of time in a Dhammic context?
retrofuturist wrote:Is sīla the same or different for layfolk and bhikkhus?
Might the "parameters" of sīla (as presented in the Suttas and Vinaya) yield different recommendations?
Might the recommendations be different based on the precepts you've taken - 5, 8, 10, 227 etc.
These seem to be important distinctions to call out in light of this conversation, lest we inadvertently jump between the two lifestyles without notice, or without calling out and acknowledging the distinction in the first place.
retrofuturist wrote:This is of vital importance to the topic because if they are different, and sila is therefore subjective and relative to your chosen mode of livelihood, we then need to be cognizant of which teachings were given the bhikkhus, which were given to householders, and which were given to both.
Cittasanto wrote:but after saying that, and on a general note, unless a Bhikkhu or Bhikkhuni joins the discussion, the vinaya would be out of the bounds for most members here to discuss with any authority as no one hare has access to the texts in full (to my knowledge) and it would be best to stick with the suttas.
The Book of the Discipline,
tr. I.B. Horner:
Set ISBN 254 4 £157.30
Translation of Vinaya-piṭaka: (Vols. I-III) Suttavibhaṇga; (Vol. IV) Mahāvagga; (Vol. V) Cūlavagga; (Vol. VI) Parivāra.
mikenz66 wrote: To me, the particularly interesting point in this talk is that nowhere in the Suttas are there examples of difficult decisions about right or wrong. All the examples are very black and white.
To me, the particularly interesting point in this talk is that nowhere in the Suttas are there examples of difficult decisions about right or wrong. All the examples are very black and white.
I'm surprised noone picked up on this. It is amazing (to me) that the suttas are so black and white, but so much subsequent discussion (such as here...) tends to focus on complicated situations. Hard to believe there were not some complicated situations 2500 years ago. Maybe the complicated situations were discussed one-to-one, and not recorded...
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