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"Don't look down on the defilements, They will laugh at you" - Dhamma Wheel

"Don't look down on the defilements, They will laugh at you"

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
fijiNut
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"Don't look down on the defilements, They will laugh at you"

Postby fijiNut » Wed May 13, 2009 10:08 am

Apart from the catchy title, I just felt like sharing a link to Sayadaw U Tenjaniya's (successor to Shwe Oo Min Sayadaw) teaching on mindfulness and being aware of mind states.

I admire his teachings because contrary to many contemporary teachers who encourage spiritual materialism - this jhana, that stage of insight, he has a natural approach in his method and teachings.

http://sayadawutejaniya.org/teachings/

Hope this helps your practice.

with metta,
fijiNut

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zavk
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Re: "Don't look down on the defilements, They will laugh at you"

Postby zavk » Wed May 13, 2009 10:43 am

With metta,
zavk

Hoo
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Re: "Don't look down on the defilements, They will laugh at you"

Postby Hoo » Wed May 13, 2009 12:59 pm

Thanks for posting this link. I found it most useful :)

Steve

fijiNut
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Re: "Don't look down on the defilements, They will laugh at you"

Postby fijiNut » Wed May 13, 2009 10:43 pm


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retrofuturist
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Re: "Don't look down on the defilements, They will laugh at you"

Postby retrofuturist » Thu May 14, 2009 4:14 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

rowyourboat
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Re: "Don't look down on the defilements, They will laugh at you"

Postby rowyourboat » Thu May 14, 2009 12:40 pm

let us take everything with a pinch of salt ..including the calm, cool words of an enlightened teacher

"And as I remained thus heedful, ardent, & resolute, thinking imbued with harmfulness arose. I discerned that 'Thinking imbued with harmfulness has arisen in me; and that leads to my own affliction or to the affliction of others or to the affliction of both. It obstructs discernment, promotes vexation, & does not lead to Unbinding.'

"As I noticed that it leads to my own affliction, it subsided. As I noticed that it leads to the affliction of others... to the affliction of both... it obstructs discernment, promotes vexation, & does not lead to Unbinding, it subsided. Whenever thinking imbued with harmfulness had arisen, I simply abandoned it, destroyed it, dispelled it, wiped it out of existence.
:jedi:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

there are no standpoints..no fixations..
this mind is too complex too slippery to say i will become enlightened only by doing things in this one way..

in my experience those teachers that dont even hint at stream entry jhana etc are ones whos teachings and methods arent conducive to those things-they just dont have the experience to talk of such things with any degree expertise or confidence (as non cool non 'dharma' as it sounds)- no teacher is mad enough just to proclaim these things and still survive and be known internationally after many decades if there isnt even an iota of truth in such things.

with metta
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

fijiNut
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Re: "Don't look down on the defilements, They will laugh at you"

Postby fijiNut » Thu May 14, 2009 10:41 pm


fijiNut
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Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:11 am

Re: "Don't look down on the defilements, They will laugh at you"

Postby fijiNut » Fri May 15, 2009 12:02 am

RYB & All,
Perhaps, there is nothing wrong spiritual materialism aiming in practice for Jhana and/or progressive stages of insight, but problem I have faced in my own practice is attaching towards the end result without doing the necessary work.
So I have been very guilty of hugging the sign posts on the road in the blind hope that it would get me to the destination, which the wrong way of practice.
I hope nobody commits the same mistake as I have because one wastes a lot of time there.

In regards to U Tenjaniya's book, as my own limited practice of Satipatthana had only awareness of body and vedana, it was a revelation for me to find an instruction manual for me to examine my mind and its hidden motivations and attitudes - by no means is it the only means to the end.

Much gratitude for pointing out a well rounded perspective on the issue.

with metta,
fijiNut

rowyourboat
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Re: "Don't look down on the defilements, They will laugh at you"

Postby rowyourboat » Fri May 15, 2009 5:34 pm

Hi Fijinut

There are advantages and disadvantages in everything in this world- and that includes signposts of progress. What would you suggest others do to avoid the pitfall you found out about yet make best use of the signposts?

with metta
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

fijiNut
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Re: "Don't look down on the defilements, They will laugh at you"

Postby fijiNut » Fri May 15, 2009 11:39 pm

Do not attach to ANYTHING, the very nature of attachment in itself brings suffering, even attachment to serenity or insight.

Otherwise, one becomes a run-of-the-mill person all over again, you attain a meditation state - you're happy, you don't get it, you're stressed, worried, or doubtful, ignorant to the fact that all things arise due to its causes and conditions, not aware that in the undercurrent of all this - the defilement are working full force and indeed laughing at you.

If you have 'certain experiences' on retreat, just better leave those experiences back at the meditation center and forget about it- just see what insight follows you when you get back to lay life.
Otherwise, one would be basking in one's and then one is really stuck.

This is what I meant by 'spiritual materialism', I'm sorry if I sound vague as my language skills and Dhamma practice is limited.
Indeed, we should aspire to the Ariyan attainments, but perhaps, with the right attitude.

Venerable U Tejaniya has an important message, even if it is 'Dhamma-lite'.

with metta

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appicchato
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Re: "Don't look down on the defilements, They will laugh at you"

Postby appicchato » Fri May 15, 2009 11:51 pm


rowyourboat
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Re: "Don't look down on the defilements, They will laugh at you"

Postby rowyourboat » Mon May 18, 2009 9:37 pm

the point about hinting at/writing extensively about things like stream entry is that those genuinely seeking these things are pointed in the right direction- these masters are probably aware that it will put off a certain number of people -who incidentally are unlikely have enough motivation or faith to reach such states with their mistrust/lack of understanding/ego getting in the way.

while there may be some reason for the meditation teacher to proclaim such things i suppose there are few wholesome reasons for a student to do so

it might be interesting to flesh out the 'right attitude' you mention- i suspect being aware of how developments along the path can lead to conceit- being aware of the dangers- and also a healthy dose of uncertainty of attainments that the lack of a Buddha to proclaim these states, brings with it- modern masters might teach a path which ticks all if not most of the boxes for a given level of attainment but no one can be 100% sure.
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha


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