OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

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OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby Vepacitta » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:39 pm

If all responses have to be reviewed and approved (by men) then it's not really an open thread.

More like a gang up on the female posters here who have some guts ... pretty freaking sad.

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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby daverupa » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:04 pm

There's one female mod who has access to that process, perhaps that can help assuage this sense of imbalance?
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:08 pm

Hi everyone,

Evidently this topic has pushed some buttons. Why don't we all take a moment to relax and try to see this in light of the Dhamma.

50. Let none find fault with others; let none see the omissions and commissions of others. But let one see one's own acts, done and undone.
:heart:
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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:14 pm

daverupa wrote:There's one female mod who has access to that process, perhaps that can help assuage this sense of imbalance?


Correct, she is cooran, but unfortunately she is away at the moment on pilgrimage in India. But rest assured although I am male, I am a big supporter of egalitarianism, bhikkhuni ordinations and hopefully can provide some balance in that regard while she is away. And I might add, so are many of the other moderators (supporting bhikkhunis and egalitarianism).
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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby Sanghamitta » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:38 pm

Perhaps David you could demonstrate your commitment to egalitarianism by allowing women to share their hurt at the way that they are frequently treated without that expression being subject to male censorship as on the Hot Topic thread.
I consider the suppression of the Dealing with Anxiety thread in order to funnel all debate into a male only censored thread to be quite quite shocking, and underlines all the points that some of the female members are making.
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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:44 pm

Sanghamitta,

David generally stays out of the moderating as a rule just to avoid any appearance of impropriety. I have locked the threads at present until the moderators can review the posts being made. The content and tone of many of the posts made by both male and female participants seems to be completely adhammic and contrary to the Dhamma-vinaya in both letter and spirit. I certainly don't doubt the veracity of your grievances but perhaps this forum is not the right platform? Mettaya.
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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby Sanghamitta » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:46 pm

The ( at the moment ) ALL MALE MOD team are behaving like the government of a totalitarian state.
I am appalled.
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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:52 pm

I'm sorry you feel that way. If you truly feel that you're being treated unfairly why make a big stink of it? I, for one, would leave an internet forum where I was made to feel as unwelcome and oppressed as you claim to feel.
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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby Yana » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:22 pm

i'm sorry..my name is Yana..i'm new to this forum so i don't know what's going on..i didn't even know you can lock a post..i thought that lock symbol meant it's secure or something..i know it's stupid but bear with me..

I don't know where else to post this but i just wanted to say right now my original post was not meant to stir up or instigate any form of gender bashing...or division..it was to seek help in getting rid of the wrong views that i have personally struggled with.Personally,if it's even relevant anymore,at this point..this struggle was to let go of the residual feeling of fear and anxiety towards men accumulated through years of holding onto these wrong views.This is the main reason i posted my original question/post.

you see..I needed help to "Stop" hating men.Not "Reasons Why I Hate Men".

and i'm really sorry it's turned out the way it has.

PS.Please dont tell me to stop apologizing,this is not possible.I feel like **** right now. and don't tell me i'm giving the male members a free pass.this is not true! :(
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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:23 pm

Sanghamitta wrote:The ( at the moment ) ALL MALE MOD team are behaving like the government of a totalitarian state.
I am appalled.


The other threads in question are dealing with some personal experience issues regarding men, not Dhamma Wheel or its moderators. You are the only one I see trying to turn this into some attack on Dhamma Wheel forum.

Not a single post expressing an opinion has been disapproved up to now. (However, off-topic personal attacks on either side of the issue have been not approved.)
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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:32 pm

Sanghamitta wrote:The ( at the moment ) ALL MALE MOD team are behaving like the government of a totalitarian state.
I am appalled.
I am doing that? Goodness.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby Fede » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:33 pm

Taking the unilateral decision to lock a thread without consulting or advising the OP that it is being considered is authoritarian and bad mannered.
I wish to voice my strongest objection. this is curtailing free speech.
you are moderators, not censors.

the fact that this has caused such heated debate is indicative of several things:
One, women are definitely poorly represented here, and the invitation to increase the number of female members, which was suggested by a male member to a female one, is frankly, patronising and in poor taste.

Two, the matter is obviously of sufficient importance to arouse an awful lot of feeling and comment amongst even buddhists - allegedly followers the most peace-loving and undivided religion currently manifesting on the planet. how quickly this is forgotten.

Three, Buddhism and all it teaches has obviously taught men nothing.
Men still question whether the Buddha was really sexist, and what they should do about addiction to porn.
both of which indicate a very samsaric and insulting attitude to women.
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:38 pm

Fede wrote:Taking the unilateral decision to lock a thread without consulting or advising the OP that it is being considered is authoritarian and bad mannered.
I wish to voice my strongest objection. this is curtailing free speech.
you are moderators, not censors.

the fact that this has caused such heated debate is indicative of several things:
One, women are definitely poorly represented here, and the invitation to increase the number of female members, which was suggested by a male member to a female one, is frankly, patronising and in poor taste.

Two, the matter is obviously of sufficient importance to arouse an awful lot of feeling and comment amongst even buddhists - allegedly followers the most peace-loving and undivided religion currently manifesting on the planet. how quickly this is forgotten.

Three, Buddhism and all it teaches has obviously taught men nothing.
Men still question whether the Buddha was really sexist, and what they should do about addiction to porn.
both of which indicate a very samsaric and insulting attitude to women.
Free speech? Are you an American?

So, your solutions to the above outlined problems are?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby Sanghamitta » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:45 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Sanghamitta wrote:The ( at the moment ) ALL MALE MOD team are behaving like the government of a totalitarian state.
I am appalled.
I am doing that? Goodness.

I said the ( at the moment ) all male mod team. I didnt say all of that team.

:anjali:
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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby Sanghamitta » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:49 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
Sanghamitta wrote:The ( at the moment ) ALL MALE MOD team are behaving like the government of a totalitarian state.
I am appalled.


The other threads in question are dealing with some personal experience issues regarding men, not Dhamma Wheel or its moderators. You are the only one I see trying to turn this into some attack on Dhamma Wheel forum.

Not a single post expressing an opinion has been disapproved up to now. (However, off-topic personal attacks on either side of the issue have been not approved.)

Are you still of that view after reading Fedes ( excellent ) post ?
That I am the only one expressing concern about the forum ? ( "attack " is somewhat emotive ).
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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:50 pm

Thanks but no thanks Fede. In case we all forget:

The Akkosa Sutta ~ the Insult

Once the Blessed One was staying at Rajagaha in the Bamboo Grove near the Squirrels' Feeding Place. Now the brahman Akkosa Bharadvaja heard this: "The brahman Bharadvaja, it seems, has become a monk under the Great Monk Gotama." Angry and unhappy, he went to where the Blessed One was. Having approached the Blessed One, he abused and criticized the Blessed One in foul and harsh words. Thus reviled, the Blessed One spoke to the brahman Akkosa Bharadvaja: 'Well, brahman, do friends, confidants, relatives, kinsmen and guests visit you?"

"Yes, Gotama, sometimes friends, confidants, relatives, kinsmen and guests do visit me."

"Well, brahman, do you not offer them snacks or food or tidbits?"

"Yes, Gotama, sometimes I do offer them snacks or food or tidbits."

"But if, brahman, they do not accept it, who gets it?"

"If Gotama, they do not accept it, I get it back."

"Even so, brahman, you are abusing us who do not abuse, you are angry with us who do not get angry, you are quarreling with us who do not quarrel. All this of yours we don't accept. You alone, brahman, get it back; all this, brahman, belongs to you.

"When, brahman, one abuses back when abused, repays anger in kind, and quarrels back when quarreled with, this is called, brahman, associating with each other and exchanging mutually. This association and mutual exchange we do not engage in. Therefore you alone, brahman, get it back; all this, brahman, belongs to you."

"People, including the king, know the Venerable Gotama thus: 'The Monk Gotama is the Worthy One.' When does the Venerable Gotama become angry?"

Said the Buddha:

"Where is anger for one freed from anger,
Who is subdued and lives perfectly equanimous,
Who truly knowing is wholly freed,
Supremely tranquil and equipoised?
He who repays an angry man in kind
Is worse than the angry man;
Who does not repay anger in kind,
He alone wins the battle hard to win.
He promotes the weal of both,
His own, as well as of the other.
Knowing that the other man is angry,
He mindfully maintains his peace
And endures the anger of both,
His own, as well as of the other,
Even if the people ignorant of true wisdom
Consider him a fool thereby."
When the Lord proclaimed this, the brahman Akkosa Bharadvaja said this to the Blessed One: "Wonderful, indeed, O Venerable Gotama! Herewith I go to the Venerable Gotama for refuge, to his Teaching and to his Holy Order of Monks. Most venerable sir, may I have the privilege to receive at the hands of the revered Lord Gotama the initial monastic ordination and also the higher ordination of a bhikkhu."

And the brahman Akkosa Bharadvaja received at the hands of the Blessed One the initial monastic ordination and he also received the higher ordination of a bhikkhu. And within a short time of his ordination, the Venerable Akkosa Bharadvaja, living alone, secluded, diligent, zealous and unrelenting, reached that incomparable consummation of holiness for which sons of noble families, having totally abandoned the household life, take to the life of homelessness. With direct knowledge he realized the ultimate, then and there, and lived having access to it. He saw with his supernormal vision: "Ceased is rebirth, lived is the holy life, completed is the spiritual task and henceforth there is nothing higher to be achieved."

The Venerable Akkosa Bharadvaja, indeed, became one of the Arahats.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .budd.html
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby Sanghamitta » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:51 pm

Fede wrote:Taking the unilateral decision to lock a thread without consulting or advising the OP that it is being considered is authoritarian and bad mannered.
I wish to voice my strongest objection. this is curtailing free speech.
you are moderators, not censors.

the fact that this has caused such heated debate is indicative of several things:
One, women are definitely poorly represented here, and the invitation to increase the number of female members, which was suggested by a male member to a female one, is frankly, patronising and in poor taste.

Two, the matter is obviously of sufficient importance to arouse an awful lot of feeling and comment amongst even buddhists - allegedly followers the most peace-loving and undivided religion currently manifesting on the planet. how quickly this is forgotten.

Three, Buddhism and all it teaches has obviously taught men nothing.
Men still question whether the Buddha was really sexist, and what they should do about addiction to porn.
both of which indicate a very samsaric and insulting attitude to women.

:goodpost:
What with this and Vepacittas posts that must cover the views of about 50% of the female membership. Do you want to repeat your assertion that the problem is me David ?
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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:00 pm

Well, up until that post by Fede is was only you on the attack of Dhamma Wheel and its moderator team. But now okay, it is you and Fede.

Look at Yana's posts. She was just expressing some personal experience issues regarding men and that is how Fede started too in the other thread. Now you and Fede have turned the direction toward the mod staff.
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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby Modus.Ponens » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:06 pm

This is somewhat ridiculous. I think I've seen every topic that was ever locked in this forum since the begining to see if there was censorship or other bad moderation actions. Until now, none of those topics have been wrongly closed (although sometimes it's a bit preventive of potential verbal fights). The topics that were just closed were closed by the same reason as every other topic was closed: verbal violence. I cannot see any dictatorship here.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
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Re: OpenDhamma Hot Topic Posts being Reviewed

Postby SDC » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:42 pm

Have we all forgotten the reality of what we are involved in here in this life? That whatever we think we are - male/female, black/white, gay/straight, smart/stupid, old/young, good/bad, etc - doesn't mean an effing thing? I think we are all showing how serious we are taking our "selves".

I don't think the topic should be locked. If we all want to prove to each other how much we are dependent on the idea of ourselves then so be it. It will be a great learning experience for all on exactly what we are doing wrong.

Who knows? I may be taking my self quite seriously be writing this post. :tongue:

[/end self righteous rant]
Through many of samsara’s births I hasten seeking, finding not the builder of this house - pain is birth again, again. O builder of this house you’re seen, you shall not build a house again, all your beams have given away, rafters of the ridge decayed, mind to the unconditioned gone, exhaustion of craving has it reached.(Dhp - 153, 154)
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