Shebop wrote:Hello all,
could you please help me to understand what is exactely meant by micca samadhi. Obviously it is a form of samadhi, so one will experience similar/same states as in sama-samadhi? Is the micca 'just' about one's intention and if - how can an unwholesome intention lead to a samadhi-state?
In my meditation yesterday something interessting happened, namely that an unwholesome wish popped up in my mind after a long period of silence. After thinking that wish, the meditation went much deeper instantly. My ability to hear stopped and after the meditation it took me a while to be able to move my body again. This state was no different from other meditation experiences I had and which were definately sama-samadhi.
The unwholesome wish and the minds response in yesterdays meditation puzzles me.
Does anyone know how the Buddha defines micca-samadhi? Does he give explanations?
Thankful for hints and help - Shebop
Zom wrote:the fourth Jhana can attained while walking according to one sutta
It wasn't the case, brahman, that the Blessed One praised mental absorption of every sort, nor did he criticize mental absorption of every sort. And what sort of mental absorption did he not praise? There is the case where a certain person dwells with his awareness overcome by sensual passion, seized with sensual passion. He does not discern the escape, as it actually is present, from sensual passion once it has arisen. Making that sensual passion the focal point, he absorbs himself with it, besorbs, resorbs, & supersorbs himself with it.
"He dwells with his awareness overcome by ill will...
"He dwells with his awareness overcome by sloth & drowsiness...
"He dwells with his awareness overcome by restlessness & anxiety...
"He dwells with his awareness overcome by uncertainty, seized with uncertainty. He does not discern the escape, as it actually is present, from uncertainty once it has arisen. Making that uncertainty the focal point, he absorbs himself with it, besorbs, resorbs, & supersorbs himself with it. This is the sort of mental absorption that the Blessed One did not praise.
Zom wrote:Then explain MN 122 Maha-suññata Sutta: The Greater Discourse on Emptiness.
What to explain there? I don't see it is said that someone does 4th jhana while walking.
but this discussion can continue elsewhere, like the thread regarding it here
Zom wrote:Perhaps you interpret this passage as "inside a jhana":
"If, while the monk is dwelling by means of this dwelling, his mind inclines to walking back & forth, he walks back & forth [thinking,] 'While I am walking thus, no covetousness or sadness, no evil, unskillful qualities will take possession of me.' In this way he is alert there.But this is not the case. It is actually said here "while the monk is dwelling ("is living") [generally] by means of this dwelling..." and not "while in the jhana".
Easy to prove. Just look further.
yes it is speaking in a general manner about the state they are in, after all the four Jhanas are in the Noble One's discipline called abidings in ease here and now, and vihara, the word translated here as dwelling, could refer to several things, postures, or activities included.
the strength of concentration needed is debatable, all that can be said for certain is the Jhana factors need to be present and it maybe more the case that the Buddha encouraged these Jhana qualities in every posture and activity also and used the same names, this being one direct reference to this that has survived, but that is just a guess.
Although I see no difference between your rendering and what the sutta is saying.Elsewhere in other suttas it is said that even in the 1st jhana all thinking (internal speech) completely stops. Not to say about 4th jhana. Even if we don't interpret internal speech as thinking, then this is surely so in the 2nd jhana, where there is no vitakka/vicara at all. So, in the 4th jhana there can be no thoughts and no speech. But one not knowing this, taking as a support this passage from MN 122, may think that in the 4th jhana there is still speech and thinking; and that it can be done while walking -)
yet the suttas are clear that initial and sustained thought are part of the first Jhana and that discernment and knowing are or can be present in the Jhanas!Here is okey too, because 4th jhana while walking is also a wrong samadhi -)
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