Baby naming, dedication ceremony?

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Mawkish1983
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Baby naming, dedication ceremony?

Post by Mawkish1983 »

Firstly it needs to be said: I do not feel a 'Buddhist' baby naming or dedication ceremony makes any sense. I don't see there being any benefit.

My wife and I have been discussing some of the details about how we will raise our children. She isn't pregnant yet, were are just preparing for what will likely happen in the future. Despite not being a Christian, she wants our children to be Christened because she feels it is traditional. I have real reservations about it. The whole thing feel very false. She has said to me that if I can find a secular 'naming ceremony' or even a 'Buddhist' one she would be happy to go along with it. Does anyone know how I can compromise to keep with tradition but not be a hypocrite?

Thanks in advance.
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Ben
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Re: Baby naming, dedication ceremony?

Post by Ben »

Hi Mawk,
Is your wife a Christian? If not, why the insistence on a christening?
It seems a bit bizarre.
Empty ritual and all that stuff.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

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Mawkish1983
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Location: Essex, UK

Re: Baby naming, dedication ceremony?

Post by Mawkish1983 »

Ben wrote:Is your wife a Christian?
Nope.
Ben wrote:If not, why the insistence on a christening? It seems a bit bizarre. Empty ritual and all that stuff.
I whole-heartedly agree. I could dig my heals in and refuse to comply, but that would just cause problems. For whatever reason, my wife wants the bizarre empty ritual. If I cannot come up with a secular or 'Buddhist' alternative, it will be a Christian ritual. Sorry this doesn't make much sense, it makes little sense to me too.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Baby naming, dedication ceremony?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Mawkish,

Not quite a naming ceremony, but what about one of these?

Not Theravadin, but not quite "empty" either...

Blessingway
http://www.bellybelly.com.au/pregnancy/ ... lessingway" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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imagemarie
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Re: Baby naming, dedication ceremony?

Post by imagemarie »

Hi Mawk

Quite by accident, I attended a baby naming ceremony at a vihara which serves the Sri Lankan community in my home town. I had asked the resident monk if I could call by with some requisites.
When I arrived, a couple with their new baby were about to have the monks perform the ceremony. No one else was in attendance. I was delighted to be invited to sit in with them. The "service" included a reading, some chanting (I recognised the Metta Sutta) and the joining of all participants (including the baby), with thread.
It was quite brief and there was much smiling and a relaxed communal vibe.
I don't know if this helps Mawk, but I'm not big on rites and rituals. It was a very pleasant occasion.

:namaste:
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Ben
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Re: Baby naming, dedication ceremony?

Post by Ben »

No, that's ok.
I grew up in a staunch Catholic family. I have a distate for ritual for its own sake - or to give a respectable facade for an excuse to hit the grog.
Sometimes its best to pick your battles. And strategically concede defeat on issues which would only give you a Pyrrhic victory.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
Mawkish1983
Posts: 1285
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:46 am
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Baby naming, dedication ceremony?

Post by Mawkish1983 »

retrofuturist wrote:Not quite a naming ceremony, but what about one of these?
Blessingway
Hmmm, interesting. I'm not sure if this would meet her needs though, she wants an opportunity to present the baby post-birth (she isn't even pregnant yet and we are not trying for a baby for a while!)
Mawkish1983
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Re: Baby naming, dedication ceremony?

Post by Mawkish1983 »

imagemarie wrote:...a baby naming ceremony at a vihara which serves the Sri Lankan community in my home town
Oooh, thank you imagemarie, that sounds like the sort of thing she'd like. I'll have to investigate some Sri Lankan customs then.
Mawkish1983
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Re: Baby naming, dedication ceremony?

Post by Mawkish1983 »

Ben wrote:I have a distate for ritual for its own sake - or to give a respectable facade for an excuse to hit the grog.
Absolutely. Ironically, neither my wife nor I drink, and yet I am sure the party is part of the 'tradition' she'd like. You may be right about picking my battles; I might just have to stand there and lie through my teeth about raising the child in a 'Christian' household just to appease her sensitivities. Seems wrong me having to lie though. It's not something I am comfortable with.
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Ben
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Re: Baby naming, dedication ceremony?

Post by Ben »

Hi Mawk,
I'm not advocating that you should lie!! Just pick your battles and compromise on stuff that;s not that important.
As far as bringing kids up in a (non)christian household...
You might be interested to know that we send our kids to an exclusive independent school that is aligned with one of the churches. And the reason we do that is because:
1. the school is one of the best in the country (academically)
2. we get a healthy discount on fees as a result of working for the school which makes it affordable.
3. the school's christian focus is very light.

There are a lot of kids at the school who come from non-christian families who send their kids to the school for the same reasons. There is no requirement that we should belong to the Presbyterian or Uniting Church for our kids to go to the school.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
Mawkish1983
Posts: 1285
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:46 am
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Baby naming, dedication ceremony?

Post by Mawkish1983 »

Ben wrote:I'm not advocating that you should lie!! Just pick your battles and compromise on stuff that's not that important.
I've been told that, "if you don't believe in Christianity, where is the harm in pretending, you won't go to hell for it!"... but that sort of misses the point and makes a mockery of both Christianity and my own beliefs! Hmmm. This has all come to light because I have been asked to be the Godfather for my nephew and niece, who are being Christened in two weeks time. I cannot think of a respectful way to pull out, but I cannot see me being able to go through with the ceremony. The idea of having to repeat the ceremony again with my own children fills me with dread.
Mawkish1983
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Re: Baby naming, dedication ceremony?

Post by Mawkish1983 »

Ben wrote:There are a lot of kids at the school who come from non-christian families who send their kids to the school for the same reasons. There is no requirement that we should belong to the Presbyterian or Uniting Church for our kids to go to the school.
That's interesting. The school I work at is 'secular'... but there are hymns sung in assemblies. I refuse to sing them (even though staff are expected to) because I feel it is wrong to force students from all sorts of backgrounds to sing Christian hymns under fear of detention... it all seems wrong.
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Ben
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Re: Baby naming, dedication ceremony?

Post by Ben »

Mawkish1983 wrote:Hmmm. This has all come to light because I have been asked to be the Godfather for my nephew and niece, who are being Christened in two weeks time.
That happened to me.
My brother asked me be a godfather to his kids some years ago. I told him "Do you realize that I am a practicing Buddhist" to which he said that was more meaningful to him than a disinterested Christian. Look at it this way - its about establishing or confirming familial bonds. Its about standing up and saying that you'll look out for the welfare of the children.
I refuse to sing them (even though staff are expected to) because I feel it is wrong to force students from all sorts of backgrounds to sing Christian hymns under fear of detention... it all seems wrong.
Wow! That;s the sort of compulsory christian indoctrination that I grew up with. These days, it could be grounds for legal action (in Australia).
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
Mawkish1983
Posts: 1285
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:46 am
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Baby naming, dedication ceremony?

Post by Mawkish1983 »

Ben wrote:
Mawkish1983 wrote:I refuse to sing them (even though staff are expected to) because I feel it is wrong to force students from all sorts of backgrounds to sing Christian hymns under fear of detention... it all seems wrong.
Wow! That's the sort of compulsory christian indoctrination that I grew up with. These days, it could be grounds for legal action (in Australia).
I imagine is is also grounds for legal action here, but even though the school is secular it is seen as 'traditional' and part of the 'school ethos'.

Did you decide to be Godfather for your brother? How did you get on with the oaths specifically relating to Christianity?
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Ben
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Re: Baby naming, dedication ceremony?

Post by Ben »

Yeah, I did. i flew up to Sydney and attended the ceremony which was very relaxed.
I didn't actually recite some of the oaths that I was uncomfortable with. Fortunately with the structure of the ceremony nobody knew that I didnt recite some of the oaths. It was also worthwhile catching up with family members I hadn;t seen in years.
It worked out well.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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