Porn Free for 90 Days

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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dhamma_newb
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by dhamma_newb »

The watched mind brings happiness.
Dhp 36

I am larger and better than I thought. I did not know I held so much goodness.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by tiltbillings »

That was one very shallow talk.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
dhamma_newb
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by dhamma_newb »

tiltbillings wrote:That was one very shallow talk.
Why?
The watched mind brings happiness.
Dhp 36

I am larger and better than I thought. I did not know I held so much goodness.
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Ferox
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Ferox »

I think the issue here is having to make a "vow" to do it.... making vows leads to failure and then feeling bad for yourself when you cannot meet the vows as the change has not come across naturally through practice.

I posted in another thread about how I came to the point a few months back that I called " spontaneous celibacy".. where I noticed a huge portion of my craving and passion for anything sexual just sort of.. went away. Now I'm not claiming they are gone at the root, far from it.. but I can now see more clearly that any kind of sexual activity can be observed like any other object of meditation and you can start to see there being little to no point to it, and how it is harmful to practice and to my goals of seeing things as they truly are.

I am in the prime of my life, I weight a lot less and look a lot better then I ever have, women pay much more attention to me then they ever have.. and I have little desire to date and i can see that more of my interactions with women are less and less based from a motive of wanting to "be" with them. When the "cloud" starts to part and you see things more clearly, even in moments of ecstasy.. you start see the truth of things.

so anyways, like I tell people, don't worry about needing to make vows to stop this or that.. just practice and it will come.
-just one more being treading the ancient path of Dhamma-
dhamma_newb
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by dhamma_newb »

Thanks Ferox for sharing. I just listened to a Dhamma talk by Joseph Goldstein and he mentioned being able to distinguish between aspirations and expectations in practice. I think this piece of advice is a very helpful reminder.
The watched mind brings happiness.
Dhp 36

I am larger and better than I thought. I did not know I held so much goodness.
Walt Whitman
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tiltbillings
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by tiltbillings »

dhamma_newb wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:That was one very shallow talk.
Why?
I listened to it again. Early on in the talk our good monk says he is not going make value laden statements, but then towards the end he characterizes sex as being bestial, but to my great amusement he also talks about being mindful when masturbating. That is something I jokingly suggested in this thread:

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6847" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... =60#p27345" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and I was rather roundly abused for such a suggestion.

Ven Yuttadhammo points out that the negative responses to such things as masturbation (as we see in the above linked thread) are likely the result of unhealthy responses to sex. While being a monastic celibacy is the rule, it is not a requirement for a lay-person and what really is not discussed clearly in the linked talk is what a healthy attitude towards sex might look like. At the end of the talk we get a lot of rather strong negative value judgments leveled at the idea of sex of the sort that tends to give rise to an unhealthy and negative response to sex. And I agree with Ven Y that it is an unhealthy response to sex that can give rise to an obsessive preoccupation with sex, be it pornography or body-negative/sex-negative puritanism.

There are a lot of questions here which I do not think Ven Yuttadhammo clarified; rather, he simply added to the confusion.

So, the questions are: why are you doing what you are doing, and what do you expect to get out of it? (which are for you to answer for yourself; I am not expecting an answewr.)

As for what you are going to get of your 90 day experiment, I would suggest that there be no expectations; rather, I would suggest that you be as open as you can be to what your experience tells you, and even that should be open to question.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
dhamma_newb
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by dhamma_newb »

tiltbillings wrote:
dhamma_newb wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:That was one very shallow talk.
Why?
I listened to it again. Early on in the talk our good monk says he is not going make value laden statements, but then towards the end he characterizes sex as being bestial, but to my great amusement he also talks about being mindful when masturbating. That is something I jokingly suggested in this thread:

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6847" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... =60#p27345" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and I was rather roundly abused for such a suggestion.

Ven Yuttadhammo points out that the negative responses to such things as masturbation (as we see in the above linked thread) are likely the result of unhealthy responses to sex. While being a monastic celibacy is the rule, it is not a requirement for a lay-person and what really is not discussed clearly in the linked talk is what a healthy attitude towards sex might look like. At the end of the talk we get a lot of rather strong negative value judgments leveled at the idea of sex of the sort that tends to give rise to an unhealthy and negative response to sex. And I agree with Ven Y that it is an unhealthy response to sex that can give rise to an obsessive preoccupation with it be it pornography or body-negative/sex-negative puritanism.

There are a lot of questions here which I do not think Ven Yuttadhammo clarified; rather, he simply added to the confusion.
So where does a lay-person go for clarification on what a healthy attitude towards sex is?
tiltbillings wrote:So, the questions are: why are you doing what you are doing, and what do you expect to get out of it? (which are for you to answer for yourself; I am not expecting an answewr.)

As for what you are going to get of your 90 day experiment, I would suggest that there be no expectations; rather, I would suggest that you be as open as you can be to what your experience tells you, and even that should be open to question.
Thanks for writing this tilt. I'm going to sit with these words for awhile.
The watched mind brings happiness.
Dhp 36

I am larger and better than I thought. I did not know I held so much goodness.
Walt Whitman
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reflection
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by reflection »

dhamma_newb wrote:@ Sarva,

Thanks for the support :) .
reflection wrote:I'm going to try it too. (after seeing the movie Shame, which is about sex addiction) No masturbation/sex/porn for 90 days.. Already made it for a few days, I guess, but I'll start counting now. This'll be interesting at least.. :tongue:

If someone wants to talk about it, you can always sent a personal message.


As a support to others:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7S84du6yH0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hey reflection, a friend took me along to watch Shame and I didn't even know what it was about but the movie really hit home and I think it did a good job of showing how empty the endless pursuit of sexual gratification is. Good luck with your 90 days and I wish you the best. Take care.

With Metta,
Don
I really liked the movie. The emotional tension in the sexual scenes was even so high, that for me personally it wasn't the slightest bit of arousing. However, I wouldn't recommend this movie to everybody who tries to abstain from sexuality because it has some very explicit content.. :P

And thanks. Good luck to you too. :twothumbsup:
dhamma_newb
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by dhamma_newb »

reflection wrote:
dhamma_newb wrote:@ Sarva,

Thanks for the support :) .
reflection wrote:I'm going to try it too. (after seeing the movie Shame, which is about sex addiction) No masturbation/sex/porn for 90 days.. Already made it for a few days, I guess, but I'll start counting now. This'll be interesting at least.. :tongue:

If someone wants to talk about it, you can always sent a personal message.


As a support to others:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7S84du6yH0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hey reflection, a friend took me along to watch Shame and I didn't even know what it was about but the movie really hit home and I think it did a good job of showing how empty the endless pursuit of sexual gratification is. Good luck with your 90 days and I wish you the best. Take care.

With Metta,
Don
I really liked the movie. The emotional tension in the sexual scenes was even so high, that for me personally it wasn't the slightest bit of arousing. However, I wouldn't recommend this movie to everybody who tries to abstain from sexuality because it has some very explicit content.. :P

And thanks. Good luck to you too. :twothumbsup:
Yeah I liked the movie too. I think Michael Fassbender is an excellent actor.
The watched mind brings happiness.
Dhp 36

I am larger and better than I thought. I did not know I held so much goodness.
Walt Whitman
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Monkey Mind
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Monkey Mind »

"Shame" won't be released in the USA until April 17. I have added it to my list of must-sees.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by tiltbillings »

dhamma_newb wrote:So where does a lay-person go for clarification on what a healthy attitude towards sex is?
Probably not to a relatively young and inexperienced monk.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Ben
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Ben »

Hi Don,
dhamma_newb wrote:So where does a lay-person go for clarification on what a healthy attitude towards sex is?
I think one of the complicating issues, and no doubt you are abundantly aware of this, that in the west we live immersed in a culture that sees the gratification of sensual desire as one of life's (if not the most) important aspirations and goals. It makes things difficult - finding that healthy attitude or balance.

My suggestion to you is to seek the counsel of some of your lay and monastic Dhamma friends or those that you feel some resonance with or connection with. They maybe able to provide you with some useful guidance and reassurance that you're not alone nor Robinson Caruso.
with Metta,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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tiltbillings
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by tiltbillings »

Ben wrote:Hi Don,
dhamma_newb wrote:So where does a lay-person go for clarification on what a healthy attitude towards sex is?
I think one of the complicating issues, and no doubt you are abundantly aware of this, that in the west we live immersed in a culture that sees the gratification of sensual desire as one of life's (if not the most) important aspirations and goals. It makes things difficult - finding that healthy attitude or balance.

My suggestion to you is to seek the counsel of some of your lay and monastic Dhamma friends or those that you feel some resonance with or connection with. They maybe able to provide you with some useful guidance and reassurance that you're not alone nor Robinson Caruso.
with Metta,

Ben
The question is, of course, what is a healthy attitude towards sex for a lay-person? Obviously, opinion are going to severely vary. In my opinion if one takes a look at this thread

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6847" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

one is going to see a lot of sex-negative/body-negative unhealthy stuff. Actually, there is no simple answer to the question, and like anything as we move through life we need to be kind to ourselves and to question our answers.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Ben
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Ben »

tiltbillings wrote:The question is, of course, what is a healthy attitude towards sex for a lay-person? Obviously, opinion are going to severely vary. In my opinion if one takes a look at this thread

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6847" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

one is going to see a lot of sex-negative/body-negative unhealthy stuff. Actually, there is no simple answer to the question, and like anything as we move through life we need to be kind to ourselves and to question our answers.
A very brief reply - I couldn't agree with you more, Tilt!
kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
dhamma_newb
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by dhamma_newb »

tiltbillings wrote:
dhamma_newb wrote:So where does a lay-person go for clarification on what a healthy attitude towards sex is?
Probably not to a relatively young and inexperienced monk.
Point taken.
Ben wrote:Hi Don,
dhamma_newb wrote:So where does a lay-person go for clarification on what a healthy attitude towards sex is?
My suggestion to you is to seek the counsel of some of your lay and monastic Dhamma friends or those that you feel some resonance with or connection with. They maybe able to provide you with some useful guidance and reassurance that you're not alone nor Robinson Caruso.
Why do you think I'm posting this here Ben?
tiltbillings wrote:The question is, of course, what is a healthy attitude towards sex for a lay-person? Obviously, opinion are going to severely vary. In my opinion if one takes a look at this thread

http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6847" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

one is going to see a lot of sex-negative/body-negative unhealthy stuff. Actually, there is no simple answer to the question, and like anything as we move through life we need to be kind to ourselves and to question our answers.
The only thing I got out of that thread is a headache, and not the good kind ;) . I think your advice to be kind to myself and to question my answers is probably all I need to figure this out. Thanks again.
The watched mind brings happiness.
Dhp 36

I am larger and better than I thought. I did not know I held so much goodness.
Walt Whitman
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