Traditions and ideology

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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retrofuturist
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Traditions and ideology

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:42 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby Buckwheat » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:02 am

I get the sense many of the difference arose for practical reasons. However, I think this is a lot like the nature/nurture debate, and in the end there is a complex mix of idealogical differences as well as simple practical matters that cause shifts in practice.

For instance, Buddhism in America: there are idealogical differences such as many people rejecting rebirth, as well as practical differences such as it is very difficult to become a wandering monk within our society. Almsround gets no respect here unless it is tied to a well-known monastery (Abhayagiri has an almsround, but I don't think it's quite the same as the almsrounds in Asia.)

That being said, Buddhism has been incredibly resilient for 2600 years.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby Goofaholix » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:50 am

The differentiation between Mahayana and Theravada appears to be in terms of ideaology when Mahayana define it, from a Theravadin point of view I'm not sure it is, there is less difference on a practical level.

I don't think the differences within Theravada are a matter of ideaology, more cultural or practical.

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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby ground » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:40 am

Ideology is a system of thought or a conceptual belief system or - expressing it dhamma like - systems of identifying with and appropriating consciousness in particular (the khandhas in general). All "buddhisms" are like this since they advocate validity (or truth) of the written and spoken word. "System" here stands for "exclusivity" because thought/belief is either "within" or "outside of" the conventionally defined system.

Kind regards

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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby cooran » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:39 am

Hello all,

Why not look at similarities rather than differences?

Basic points unifying the Theravada and Mahayana (1967):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Poin ... 1y%C4%81na

with metta
Chris
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---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby Buckwheat » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:50 pm

I took the OP as an attempt not to stir up a discussion of the differences between schools of thought, but to discuss the importance of ideology vs pragmatic forces in creating those variations. Am I correct?
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby Buckwheat » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:55 pm

Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby Zom » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:06 pm


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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby Buckwheat » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:49 pm

Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby daverupa » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:58 pm


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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:37 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:14 pm


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retrofuturist
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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:30 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby Dan74 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:59 pm

_/|\_

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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:08 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Dan74
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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby Dan74 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:24 am

I see (I think...)

Maybe. 84000 teachings for 84000 diseases, eh?

There are many different takes on samsara, different personality types. It is only natural that different approaches and flavours would crystallise to deal with this diversity. What's good for the goose, maybe good for the gander but the chickens and turkeys will be none the wiser, not to mention the pigs.

So this notion of one pure Buddhism to rule them all which I've seen in the past, is neither feasible nor desirable, in my view.

Even in maths, we have different texts often with quite different approaches to the same subject and some prefer to work with one while others prefer another. How much more so with the Dhamma which draws on all of us, rather than just the logic and the intellect.

So to me, it is about the diversity of human condition that explains the continuation of the diversity of Dhamma.
_/|\_

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retrofuturist
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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:29 am

Greetings Dan,

Are then the differences in the present day to be accounted for by 84,000 different personality types gravitating towards 84,000 different outward manifestations of those personality types, each possessing its own evolutionary derived mode through which it best connects to the Dhamma?

:?:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:39 am


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Dan74
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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby Dan74 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:43 am

_/|\_

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Re: Traditions and ideology

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:50 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine


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