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Pali Term: Nirodha - Dhamma Wheel

Pali Term: Nirodha

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries

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Buckwheat
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Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby Buckwheat » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:03 pm

Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

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Zom
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Re: Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby Zom » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:14 pm

Cessation is its meaning.

SN 22.21:

Then the Venerable Ananda approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, sat down to one side, and said to him:
“Venerable sir, it is said, ‘cessation, cessation (nirodha).’ Through the cessation of what things is cessation spoken of?”
“Form, Ananda, is impermanent, conditioned, dependently arisen, subject to destruction, to vanishing, to fading away, to cessation.
Through its cessation, cessation is spoken of.

“Feeling is impermanent … Perception is impermanent … Volitional constructions are impermanent … … Consciousness is impermanent, conditioned, dependently arisen, subject to destruction, to vanishing, to fading away, to cessation. Through its cessation, cessation is spoken of.

“It is through the cessation of these things, Ananda, that cessation is spoken of.”

Cafael Dust
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Re: Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby Cafael Dust » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:39 pm

Expiration? I don't think it's better but it's another reflection.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:37 am

Greetings,

I like cessation so long as it isn't loaded with realist overtones.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Buckwheat
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Re: Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby Buckwheat » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:46 pm

Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

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Re: Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby Cafael Dust » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:00 pm

I always told myself I had no need to learn Pali, but I find myself absorbed all this day, with some of the effort I usually put into poetry, in referencing etymologies of the Pali terms used in the sutta extract Zom quoted. Of course I don't think what I've written is a translation, it's just that I've spent the day on it, and it's here.

Basically I've tried to make the language less formal and latinate/cold, and more heartfelt. Which obviously obscures the technical aspects, while emphasising the poetic. From what I can make out, Pali doesn't have so much of a contrast between technical and poetic language as English, therefore it's possible that any single wording of the suttas in English will lack one of the strengths of the original.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Then the contemplative Ananda paid homage to the Blessed One, sat at his side, and said:
“Venerable, you speak of 'yielding’. What must yield?”

“Form, Ananda, is fleeting, oppressed, arisen in bondage, fragile, given to passing, to unbinding, to yielding.
Form must yield...

“Feeling is fleeting… seeing is fleeting… the fruits of will are fleeting… …
knowing is fleeting, oppressed, arisen in bondage, fragile, given to passing, to unbinding, to yielding
All of these must yield."

saññā-vedayita-nirodha - to yield (in the sense of surrender and release) seeing (in the sense of recognition) and feeling
Tanha-nirodha - to yield one's desire
Avijja-nirodha - to yield one's ignorance
Dukkha-nirodha - to yield one's suffering
Last edited by Cafael Dust on Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:07 am, edited 10 times in total.
Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:28 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby Dmytro » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:48 am

Hi,

Margeret Cone's dictionary explains:

nirodha, 1. ceasing, cessation; the being no more; stopping, shutting of. ... 2. (for sannavedayitanirodha) the cessation of conception and feeling ...



The varieties of nirodha (cessation) are explained in Nettippakarana:

‘‘Nirodho’’ti ekattatā. Tattha katamo nirodho? Paṭisaṅkhānirodho appaṭisaṅkhānirodho anunayanirodho paṭighanirodho mānanirodho makkhanirodho paḷāsanirodho issānirodho macchariyanirodho sabbakilesanirodho. Ayaṃ vemattatā.

Nettippakarana 72

Metta, Dmytro


Cafael Dust
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Re: Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby Cafael Dust » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:31 pm

I got interested in the etymology of the word, which seems to support interpretations of backing down and letting go, which would allow a poetic usage of the word 'yielding', if not a direct translation. I did quite a lot of checking and actually have a post of references already written, though being utterly unqualified I already feel a little presumptious in posting my rewording of the sutta, so I'll only continue babbling if anyone is interested.
Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.

Buckwheat
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Re: Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby Buckwheat » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:04 pm

Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

rowyourboat
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Re: Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby rowyourboat » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:27 pm

Nir = Non
Udaya = arising

..as opposed to 'udaya-vaya' = arising-ceasing.

Everything arises and passes away (ceases), but non-arising is something special. It is the manifestation of the unconditioned - nibbana.

With metta
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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piotr
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Re: Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby piotr » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:34 pm

Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

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Re: Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby Cafael Dust » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.

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Dmytro
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Re: Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby Dmytro » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:29 am



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Dmytro
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Re: Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby Dmytro » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:33 am

Thank you, Piotr, for translation.


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daverupa
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Re: Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby daverupa » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:53 am


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Dmytro
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Re: Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby Dmytro » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:26 pm

I'm not going to reply to personal remarks in the Pali terms threads.


SamKR
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Re: Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby SamKR » Mon May 27, 2013 2:56 am

Last edited by SamKR on Tue May 28, 2013 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nyana
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Re: Pali Term: Nirodha

Postby Nyana » Mon May 27, 2013 4:40 am



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