No sankhata dhammas existing outside of present awareness

Discussion of Satipatthana bhavanā and Vipassana bhavana.

Re: No sankhata dhammas existing outside of present awareness

Postby Sarva » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:32 am

retrofuturist wrote: (cut for space)

Sarva wrote:What about "awareness", there is the awareness of something and awarness of no thing, however this "awareness" is not observable itself, in other words it is an "unobservable phenomena", or would you disagree? I am curious how to get around that.

I'm a bit confused as to what you mean here. Is there any chance you could recast your question with reference to Pali terminology such as vinnana or manasikara?

Hi Retro
I answered Tilt before seeing your reply, so hopefully there might be some clarity in my question above. Although I have blundered an answer in my very own question above, but would appreciate your shared insight if you have the momentum to reply :)

I am very new to the sutta and pali :embarassed: I used 'awareness' because I was not sure if there is a term in Pali, I guess "pure consciousness". Or a bit more clear:
"There remains only consciousness: pure & bright. What does one cognize with that consciousness? One cognizes 'pleasure.' One cognizes 'pain.' One cognizes 'neither pleasure nor pain.' In dependence on a sensory contact that is to be felt as pleasure, there arises a feeling of pleasure.
MN140 link
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Or "Luminous is the mind" AN 1.49-52
Link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Interestingly I came across the Buddha's words trying to find how Gautama calls it and came across an interesting explanation, I hope I am not derailing your thread by sharing it here, just for friendly interest:
"He discerns that 'Whatever disturbances that would exist based on the perception of village are not present. Whatever disturbances that would exist based on the perception of human being are not present. There is only this modicum of disturbance: the singleness based on the perception of wilderness.' He discerns that 'This mode of perception is empty of the perception of village. This mode of perception is empty of the perception of human being. There is only this non-emptiness: the singleness based on the perception of wilderness.' Thus he regards it as empty of whatever is not there. Whatever remains, he discerns as present: 'There is this.' And so this, his entry into emptiness, accords with actuality, is undistorted in meaning, & pure.
MN 121 link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

retrofuturist wrote: (An excellent question, and hopefully one we can explore a bit further in this topic. The short answer I would put forward is that all sankharas depend on avijja, so whatever mental cultivation reduces avijja reduces sankharas.

Metta,
Retro. :)

Thank you, I think you hit the nail on the head with your answer regarding avijja. I will keep up with topic to see if this question returns. :anjali:

EDIT: sorry, indentation now fixed.
“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86
Sarva
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: No sankhata dhammas existing outside of present awareness

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:32 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Tilt,

It's only a laugh, no harm done.

Venerable Nanananda wrote:“I’m sure you have read Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi’s trans­la­tion of the Saṃyutta Nikāya. You must have come across the Pheṇapindūpama Sutta. In the notes you’ll see Ven. Bodhi explain­ing that although the lump is illu­sory, the ingre­di­ents aren’t. It is worse when it comes to the magic show. He says that only the magic is not real; the magician’s appur­te­nances are. This is a dis­tor­tion of the sim­ile given by the Bud­dha. We must appre­ci­ate the great work done by Ven. Bodhi, but it is unfor­tu­nate that he is bound by the com­men­tar­ial tradition.

Source: http://nidahas.com/2010/09/nanananda-heretic-sage-2/

Metta,
Retro. :)
Yes, well, I like Ven Nanananda's clarity of expression and thought, but I can't stand the unnecessarily overblown writing and mental contortion-ism of Nanavira, which some folks mistake as being profundity. Ven Nanananda's criticisms of Ven Bodshi are on target in the above quote, but the essay I linked by Ven Bodhi, except for the last short paragraph, is a fairly decent overview of sankhara as it is used in the suttas. Poor Ven Bodhi is not totally stupid.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 18355
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Turtle Island

Re: No sankhata dhammas existing outside of present awareness

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:56 am

Greetings Sarva,

Sarva wrote:if you have the momentum to reply :)

Given the nature of your post, I think it might be worthwhile investigating nama-rupa.

Given this section is focused on the Sutta Pitaka, I'll start you off with this from MN9 (alas in this online translation nama-rupa is crudely translated as mentality-materiality, whereas the literal name-and-form translation would be preferable IMO)...

"Then they asked him a further question: "But, friend, might there be another way in which a noble disciple is one of right view... and has arrived at this true Dhamma?" — "There might be, friends.

"When, friends, a noble disciple understands mentality-materiality, the origin of mentality-materiality, the cessation of mentality-materiality, and the way leading to the cessation of mentality-materiality, in that way he is one of right view... and has arrived at this true Dhamma.

"And what is mentality-materiality, what is the origin of mentality-materiality, what is the cessation of mentality-materiality, what is the way leading to the cessation of mentality-materiality? Feeling, perception, volition, contact and attention — these are called mentality. The four great elements and the material form derived from the four great elements — these are called materiality. So this mentality and this materiality are what is called mentality-materiality. With the arising of consciousness there is the arising of mentality-materiality. With the cessation of consciousness there is the cessation of mentality-materiality. The way leading to the cessation of mentality-materiality is just this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view... right concentration.

"When a noble disciple has thus understood mentality-materiality, the origin of mentality-materiality, the cessation of mentality-materiality, and the way leading to the cessation of mentality-materiality... he here and now makes an end of suffering. In that way too a noble disciple is one of right view... and has arrived at this true Dhamma."

... and suggest if you're interested in further exploration, to investigate the words of Venerable Nanananda (e.g. Magic Of The Mind, Concept And Reality, The Nibbana Sermons)

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14521
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: No sankhata dhammas existing outside of present awareness

Postby Sarva » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:10 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Sarva,

... and suggest if you're interested in further exploration, to investigate the words of Venerable Nanananda (e.g. Magic Of The Mind, Concept And Reality, The Nibbana Sermons)

Metta,
Retro. :)

I will.
Many thanks for your helpful replies, Retro :)
“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86
Sarva
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: No sankhata dhammas existing outside of present awareness

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:10 am

Sarva wrote:I am that which is beyond range.
If you are meaning that what you ultimately, in some way, are “beyond range,” that is just Hinduism or a variation of buddha-nature (in its more reified expression).

Don't forget that Who sees paticcasamuppada sees Dhamma, who sees Dhamma sees paticcasamuppda. - MN 1 190-1.

Seeing the Dhamma is an expression indicating awakening. The word dhamma (plural) could easily and reasonably be substituted for paticcasamuppada, given that components of the various expressions of paticcasamuppada are dhamma manifesting interdepedent nature.

Who sees dhamma sees Dhamma, who sees Dhamma sees dhamma. And the "All" is one way of talking about the dhammas experienced. What is “beyond range” is the assuming that there is some thing, some "I am" that experiences the "All." Keep in mind that the "All" sutta is a response to the Brhadaranyaka Upanisad claim that Brahman/atman is the "All."

"When, Bahiya, for you there will be only the seen in the seen, only the heard in the heard, only the sensed in the sensed, only the cognized in the cognized, then, Bahiya, there is no you in terms of that. When there is no you in terms of that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of suffering." -- Udana 10. This all plays itself in the "All" and no place else. There is no thing other than our experience and insight into the "All" -- into the khandhas and paticcasamuppada -- that the Dhamma is seen, known, realized, and it is seen, realized, known not by any "thing" “beyond range” of the "All."

Sabbapariññaa Sutta (Itivuttaka, Sutta 7):

Bhikkhus, one who has not directly known and fully understood the ‘All’ (sabba), who has not detached his mind from it and abandoned it, is incapable of destroying suffering. But one who has directly known (abhijaana) and fully understood (parijaana) the ‘All’, and who has detached his mind from it and abandoned it, is capable of destroying suffering.

And keep in mind that the “mind” is not different from the “All”:

Ven Nanananda’s translation and commentary: It is in this very fathom-long physical frame with its perceptions and mind, that, I declare, lies the world, and the arising of the world, and the cessation of the world, and the path leading to the cessation of the world."[26]

26.The import of this significant declaration can be understood in the context of those suttas in which the Buddha defines the concept of the world. The 'world,' for the Buddha, arises in the six sense-spheres (See above Note 21). Hence its cessation too, is to be experienced there, in the cessation of the six sense-spheres (salaayatananirodha). "I will teach you, monks, how the world comes to be and passes away... What monks, is the arising of the world? Dependent on eye and forms, arises visual consciousness. The concurrence of the three is contact. Conditioned by contact is feeling. Conditioned by feeling, craving. Conditioned by craving, grasping. Conditioned by grasping, becoming. Conditioned by becoming, birth. And conditioned by birth, arise decay, death, grief lamentation, suffering, despair. This is the arising of the world.
And what, monks, is the passing away of the world? Dependent on the eye and forms arise visual consciousness. The concurrence of the three is contact. Conditioned by contact is feeling. Conditioned by feeling is craving. By the utter fading away and cessation of that craving, grasping ceases, by the ceasing of grasping, becoming ceases, by the ceasing of becoming birth ceases, by the ceasing of birth, decay-and-death, grief, lamentation, suffering, despair, cease. Such is the ceasing of this entire man of Ill.

— SN 2.26

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... tml#fnt-26
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 18355
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Turtle Island

Re: No sankhata dhammas existing outside of present awareness

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:17 am

Greetings,

:goodpost:

Awesome collection of comments and quotes.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14521
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: No sankhata dhammas existing outside of present awareness

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:18 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

:goodpost:

Awesome collection of comments and quotes.

Metta,
Retro. :)
Thank you.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 18355
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Turtle Island

Re: No sankhata dhammas existing outside of present awareness

Postby Sarva » Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:38 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

:goodpost:

Awesome collection of comments and quotes.

Metta,
Retro. :)


Agreed, thanks a lot Tilt, your time collecting those in response is appreciated!

I fear I have already distracted from Retro's OP, so if you don't mind I might start a new post, quoting our replies, to explore this area as I feel it would benefit me and perhaps still be of interest to you or others.

:anjali:
“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86
Sarva
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: No sankhata dhammas existing outside of present awareness

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:23 pm

Sarva wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

:goodpost:

Awesome collection of comments and quotes.

Metta,
Retro. :)


Agreed, thanks a lot Tilt, your time collecting those in response is appreciated!

I fear I have already distracted from Retro's OP, so if you don't mind I might start a new post, quoting our replies, to explore this area as I feel it would benefit me and perhaps still be of interest to you or others.
You are welcoms, and a new thread would be a good idea.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
User avatar
tiltbillings
 
Posts: 18355
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Turtle Island

Re: No sankhata dhammas existing outside of present awareness

Postby vinasp » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:50 pm

Hi Retro,

From The OP:

Manasikārasamudayā dhammānaṃ samudayo
manasikāranirodhā dhammānaṃ atthaṅgamo

"With the arising of attentiveness there is the arising of dhammas
With the cessation of attentiveness there is the cessation of dhammas"

Thus, there are no sankhata dhammas existing outside of present awareness, because once awareness leaves, the dhamma ceases.

----------------------- End Quote -----------------------------

The term "atthangama" means: setting down.

So a better translation would be as follows:

Manasikārasamudayā dhammānaṃ samudayo
manasikāranirodhā dhammānaṃ atthaṅgamo

"With the arising of attentiveness there is the arising of dhammas
With the cessation of attentiveness there is the setting down of dhammas"

Note: The attention does cease, but the dhammas do not, they are set down.

Your conclusion is, therefore, unjustified - quote:

Thus, there are no sankhata dhammas existing outside of present awareness, because once awareness leaves, the dhamma ceases. [end quote.]

Attention is not the same as awareness. when one no longer attends to a dhamma
then it is "set down". It recedes into the "background" from which it was first
"brought to mind" by the act of attending to it.

Regards, Vincent.
vinasp
 
Posts: 921
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Bristol. United Kingdom.

Re: No sankhata dhammas existing outside of present awareness

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:30 pm

Greetings Vincent,

Very interesting find - translating atthaṅgama as "setting down" definition does indeed lead to a less definitive outcome... it feels to have similar connotations to unbind, release etc.

A broader survey of translations however gives a somewhat different feel...

- Nyanasatta translates it as "passing away" in his translation of Satipatthana Sutta (MN 10) - http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nysa.html
- Tzungkuen Wen also translates it as "passing away" in "A Study of Sukkhavipassaka in Pāli Buddhism" - http://tkwen.theravada-chinese.org/A%20 ... _final.pdf
- Piya Tan translates it as "ending" here in his translation of Ca Dhamma Samādāna Sutta - http://dharmafarer.org/wordpress/wp-con ... 5-piya.pdf
- Nanamoli &/or Bodhi translate it is "disappearance" here - http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh390-u.html
- "Decay" here - https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct= ... NvlymWgVJg - according to Google's search results, but the site is presently down
- A condensed transcript of an S.N. Goenka Sattipathana course discourse translates it as "eradicated" at one point and "annihilation, disappearance" at another - http://zencohen.us/?p=456

Finally, the Pali Text Society's Pali-English Dictionary says... http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philol ... 1:539.pali

Attha

Attha2 (nt.) [Vedic asta, of uncertain etym.] home, primarily as place of rest & shelter, but in P. phraseology abstracted from the "going home", i. e. setting of the sun, as disappearance, going out of existence, annihilation, extinction. Only in acc. and as ˚ -- in foll phrases: atthangacchati to disappear, to go out of existence, to vanish Dh 226 (= vināsaŋ natthibhāvaŋ gacchati DhA iii.324), 384 (= parikkhayaŋ gacchati); pp. atthangata gone home, gone to rest, gone, disappeared; of the sun (= set): J i.175 (atthangate suriye at sunset); PvA 55 (id.) 216 (anatthangate s. before sunset) fig. Sn 472 (atthagata). 475 (id.); 1075 (= niruddha ucchinṇa vinaṭṭha anupādi -- sesāya nibbāna -- dhātuyā nibbuta); It 58; Dhs 1038; Vbh 195. -- atthagatatta (nt. abstr.) disappearance SnA 409. -- atthangama (atthagama passim) annihilation, disappearance; opposed to samudaya (coming into existence) and synonymous with nirodha (destruction) D i.34, 37, 183; S iv.327; A iii.326; Ps ii.4, 6, 39; Pug 52; Dhs 165, 265, 501, 579; Vbh 105. -- atthagamana (nt.) setting (of the sun) J i.101 (suriyass' atthagamanā at sunset) DA i.95 (= ogamana). -- attha -- gāmin, in phrase udayɔ atthagāmin leading to birth and death (of paññā): see udaya. -- atthaŋ paleti = atthangacchati (fig.) Sn 1074 (= atthangameti nirujjhati Nd2 28). -- Also atthamita (pp. of i) set (of the sun) in phrase anatthamite suriye before sunset (with anatthangamite as v. l. at both pass.) DhA i.86; iii.127. -- Cp. also abbhattha.

Since the PTS Dictionary is correct in that it is juxtaposed against samudaya, it made sense also to look up its opposite... http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philol ... li.1852640

Samudaya

Samudaya [saŋ+udaya] 1. rise, origin D i.17; ii.33, 308; iii.227; A i.263 (kamma˚); Vin i.10; Sn p. 135; It 16 (samuddaya metri causa) etc. dukkha˚ the origin of ill, the second ariya -- sacca, e. g. D iii.136; A i.177; Vism 495 (where samudaya is expld in its parts as sam+ u+aya); VbhA 124. -- 2. bursting forth, effulgence (pabhā˚) J i.83. -- 3. produce, revenue D i.227.

Anyway, your discovery also prompted me to do some further digging on the other sutta upon which this perspective primarily resides.

AN 3.47-3.48 wrote:"Monks, these three are fabricated characteristics of what is fabricated. Which three? Arising is discernible, passing away is discernible, alteration (literally, other-ness) while staying is discernible.

"These are three fabricated characteristics of what is fabricated.

"Now these three are unfabricated characteristics of what is unfabricated. Which three? No arising is discernible, no passing away is discernible, no alteration while staying is discernible.

"These are three unfabricated characteristics of what is unfabricated."


In Pali...

‘‘Tīṇimāni, bhikkhave, saṅkhatassa saṅkhatalakkhaṇāni. Katamāni tīṇi? Uppādo paññāyati, vayo paññāyati, ṭhitassa aññathattaṃ paññāyati. Imāni kho, bhikkhave, tīṇi saṅkhatassa saṅkhatalakkhaṇānī’’ti. Sattamaṃ.

‘Tīṇimāni, bhikkhave, asaṅkhatassa asaṅkhatalakkhaṇāni. Katamāni tīṇi? Na uppādo paññāyati, na vayo paññāyati, na ṭhitassa aññathattaṃ paññāyati. Imāni kho, bhikkhave, tīṇi asaṅkhatassa asaṅkhatalakkhaṇānī’’ti. Aṭṭhamaṃ.

Regarding this, I came across the following... http://www.nibbanam.com/nibbana_sermon2e.htm

Nanananda, in Nibbana Sermons wrote:In the Section-of-the-Threes in the Aṅguttara Nikāya the three characteristics of a saṅkhata are explained in this order: Uppādo pañ­ñāyati, vayo paññāyati, ṭhitassa aññathattaṃ pañ­ñā­yati,[26] "an aris­ing is manifest, a passing away is manifest and an otherwise-ness in the persisting is manifest."
This implies that the persistence is only apparent and that is why it is mentioned last. There is an otherwise-ness even in this appar­ently persistent. But later scholars preferred to speak of three stages as uppāda, ṭhiti, bhaṅga,[27] "arising, persis­tence and breaking up". However the law of impermanence could be suffi­ciently understood even with the help of two words, itthabhāva and aññathābhāva, this-ness and otherwise-ness. Very often we find the Buddha summing up the law of impermanence in the two words samudaya and vaya, "arising" and "passing away".[28]
There is an apparent contradiction in the phrase ṭhitassa añ­ña­that­ta, but it reminds us of the fact that what the world takes as static or persisting is actually not so. The so-called `static' is from begin­ning to end an otherwise-ness. Now if we are to relate this to the two links jāti and jarā­maraṇaṃ in paṭicca samup­pāda, we may say that as soon as one is born the process of oth­er­wise-ness sets in.

[i][26] A I 152, Saïkhatalakkhaõasutta.
[27] E.g. at Ps IV 88.
[28] E.g. at M I 56, Satipaññhànasutta.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14521
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: No sankhata dhammas existing outside of present awareness

Postby vinasp » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:39 am

Hi Retro,

I have looked into the meaning of atthangama in more detail, and I accept that
it can also mean; fall, pass away, and disappear.

So I was wrong in suggesting that it can only mean "setting down".

My DPR did not bring up the full dictionary entry as it usually does.

[ Well .... that is my excuse anyway.]

Regards, Vincent.
vinasp
 
Posts: 921
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Bristol. United Kingdom.

Re: No sankhata dhammas existing outside of present awareness

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:40 am

Greetings Vincent,

No need for excuses, I appreciate the positive contribution to the topic!

:thumbsup:

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14521
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: No sankhata dhammas existing outside of present awareness

Postby vinasp » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:21 am

Hi Retro,

You have mentioned SN 35.23 - The All.

To me, this "all" seems to be incomplete, missing certain things.

What do you think?

EDIT: I can start another thread if you do not wish to discuss "The All" here.

Regards, Vincent.
vinasp
 
Posts: 921
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Bristol. United Kingdom.

Re: No sankhata dhammas existing outside of present awareness

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:48 pm

Greetings Vincent,

vinasp wrote:To me, this "all" seems to be incomplete, missing certain things.

What do you think?

It doesn't seem to miss any fabricated phenomena (sankhata-dhammas) that I've ever experienced and could speak about. What about you?

It could be said to miss the asakhata-dhamma, i.e. nibbana, however. Otherwise, it covers everything experienceable.

vinasp wrote:EDIT: I can start another thread if you do not wish to discuss "The All" here.

No, that's fine... I think it's directly relevant and on topic.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14521
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Previous

Return to Insight Meditation

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: fivebells and 5 guests