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something is wrong - Dhamma Wheel

something is wrong

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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effort
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something is wrong

Postby effort » Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:39 pm

i have a long problem that my attention turns to breath and changing the rhythm and end up in bodily pain....

i was in retreat, it was a great experience, after retreat i had mis behavior which end into sever anxiety and depression.

i said those because i want you to have a better understanding of my background.

now, i can not sit almost at all, as i sit i become tense very badly that continues for some hours after sitting, some mind state arises that i dont like at all and keep KNOWING that is hurting, the problem is i cant let go or redirect my attention.

in daily life also i have new experience of mind state which i feel like lost and when i become mindful sometimes bad feeling also arises which ends to depression.

i'm trying to keep mindfulness simple as touching, seeing, feeling ... but the mind state is really hurting, it is feeling of lost, not knowing, dizziness, blocked.

i know i cant stay like this. if i just dont knowing my breathing everything would be fine, but knowing of breath comes and bad feeling comes after that. i tried to turn my attention to feeling after that but result is deep depression and fatigue.

i many times tried to post about this but it is really feels hopeless.

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reflection
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Re: something is wrong

Postby reflection » Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:58 pm

Hi effort,

Sometimes if there is some sort of a block in my practice, but I can't find exactly what, I find it helpful to switch to another style of meditation. For example, walking meditation. This can just be a mindful walk in the park, for example. Just to walk and enjoy the wind on my face, the ground beneath me and the nature around me can be very calming already. And it is very unlikely walking meditation will tense up your body. After that sitting meditation may also be much easier and the sense of ease may grow bigger.

Against depressive mindstates, often metta meditaton works much better than mindfulness because a big part of depression is rooted in ill will & non-acceptance.

Do you practice these types of meditation? I would really recommend it. I hope it can help you. Aside from that, and I should have actually started with this - if you are really depressive, you should look for more qualified help.

I know you'll be fine eventually :) This feeling won't last forever.

With metta,
Reflection

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Cittasanto
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Re: something is wrong

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:16 pm

Hi Effort,
What are you practicing appart from anapanasati?
How much active meditation do you do; or other posture meditation?
Do you reflect on your own good qualities; Virtues; or anything else?


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Ben
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Re: something is wrong

Postby Ben » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:00 am

Greetings Effort,

Sometimes meditation will put you in touch with your deepest and darkest demons. That, I understand.
I suggest you continue with practicing sila to the best of your ability and in your meditative practice concentrate on metta bhavana and recollecting the qualities of the triple gem. If you can - attempt some anapana or vedananupassana. But if you can't - just focus on the recollections and metta bhavana for the time being.
Wishing you all the best,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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effort
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Re: something is wrong

Postby effort » Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:56 am

nothing else than sitting vipassana, but i tried a little metta which i cant keep just for few moments, after few minutes metta turns into just repeating words ( i know it is ok but this is boring ).

i was thinking about if i could learn some meditation based on imagination, but learning new one from start without teacher is not a good idea, unless there be a clear structure also i can not see anything worthy that merely sitting for myself.

i know everything change but my fear is being in this mood for a long time, distruct me.

i tried recollecting also, i think this one is really valuable for a lost mind.

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retrofuturist
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Re: something is wrong

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:04 am

Greetings Effort,

My recommendation would be instead to cultivate the Brahma-viharas and/or Recollections on the Triple Gem.

When the mind is not in a good place to start with, insight meditation may be too raw, whereas anapanasati may be too challenging if you're prone to anxiety.

I experience Seasonal Affective Disorder and need to approach my practice differently in the darker months - shifting an emphasis to the things I've mentioned above, gratitude, perception of the beautiful etc. The cognitive slow-down I can experience during these times is conducive to calm, but it's not the concentrated calm the Buddha encouraged - it's more a languid calm and it can lead to excessive passivity and accentuate the cognitive slow-down. A bit of trial and error should help - so don't be afraid to experiment and see what works for you. It might even be that different things will work at different times.

How to gladden the mind - an important part of meditation
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6631

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Cittasanto
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Re: something is wrong

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:52 am

hi Effort,
Try to practice in the other postures, and during daily activities.
Also there is the recollections of your own good qualities, the practice of sila, and the recollection of the devas, especially those qualities which lead to their rebirth as a deva.
as has already been suggested try to develop a Brahma-vihara practice, particularly metta as it is one of the protective meditations, even if it is hard try to get into a daily practice of reading the Karaniya-Metta sutta in a meditative way, and putting it into practice, also the development of faith gladdens the mind and the recollection of the Buddha, and Dhamma, are excellent for this.

A Sangha is also very important, I am not talking about the Mendicants specifically here, rather any group of practitioners, if their is a group in your area or even a MBSR type group they can provide on hand support and encouragement.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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reflection
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Re: something is wrong

Postby reflection » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:12 pm


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daverupa
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Re: something is wrong

Postby daverupa » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:00 pm


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ancientbuddhism
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Location: Cyberia

Re: something is wrong

Postby ancientbuddhism » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:31 pm

I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)


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retrofuturist
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Re: something is wrong

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:42 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
ancientbuddhism
Posts: 882
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:53 pm
Location: Cyberia

Re: something is wrong

Postby ancientbuddhism » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:17 pm

I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)



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