Does age matter?
Does age matter?
It seems like most great monks ordained quite young, mostly in their early 20s. Does this mean that the younger one ordains the better, or is age completely irrelevant?
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Re: Does age matter?
Who are you thinking of?
Age is not a matter to greatness, and there are monks I have met whom ordained in their 50's or 60's who in my opinion are great, yet not well known.
Age is not a matter to greatness, and there are monks I have met whom ordained in their 50's or 60's who in my opinion are great, yet not well known.
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: Does age matter?
It's probably more to do with social norms in traditionally Buddhist countries (boys going into monasteries and either ordaining or leaving around the time they reach adulthood) and the 'search for identity' among young Westerners who often spend the years from 15 - 25 working who they are and what they want to do, and then settling into whatever role they have chosen.Stefan wrote:It seems like most great monks ordained quite young, mostly in their early 20s. Does this mean that the younger one ordains the better, or is age completely irrelevant?
If Westerners radically change direction after the age of 35 it's called a mid-life crisis
Kim
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Re: Does age matter?
That would be about right for Ajahn Sumedho.Kim O'Hara wrote:If Westerners radically change direction after the age of 35 it's called a mid-life crisis
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Does age matter?
That's called quarter-life crisis.Kim O'Hara wrote: It's probably more to do with social norms in traditionally Buddhist countries (boys going into monasteries and either ordaining or leaving around the time they reach adulthood) and the 'search for identity' among young Westerners who often spend the years from 15 - 25 working who they are and what they want to do,
Re: Does age matter?
I did say it's *called* a mid-life crisis.tiltbillings wrote:That would be about right for Ajahn Sumedho.Kim O'Hara wrote:If Westerners radically change direction after the age of 35 it's called a mid-life crisis
Kim
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Re: Does age matter?
Do you want to be great? wouldn't it be better to be content? I don't think any of these monks would consider themselves great, but I guess those who have been in robes longer have had more opportunity to teach and help others, that's not so much great but it's really nice.Stefan wrote:It seems like most great monks ordained quite young, mostly in their early 20s. Does this mean that the younger one ordains the better, or is age completely irrelevant?
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
Re: Does age matter?
The reason for becoming a great (=wise?) monk is not the age of ordination, but the deveolpment of panna, sila and samadhi througout life(s). One can develop these qualities regardless of whether one is ordained or not.Stefan wrote:It seems like most great monks ordained quite young, mostly in their early 20s. Does this mean that the younger one ordains the better, or is age completely irrelevant?
It may sound reasonable to think that western monks who ordain early, might have already been practicing very intense before ordination. I get the idea, but this is not necessarily the case.
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Re: Does age matter?
In a Tricycle interview several years back, Thich Nhat Hanh is reported to have said that it is better to ordain young, before so many defilements and 'baggage' has set-in. I think that could be a good point, but I believe it has more to do with the individual person and the contents of the mind/consciousness. For example, a monk who ordains young at say age 12 or 13 might wonder and even regret about not trying out the householder life. Thoughts like 'what might I have been, what might I have achieved, what might it have been like to have a son or a daughter . . . '
The greatest monk I ever met and have known is Ven. Punnaji and he ordained at age 38 after a householder life as a physician.
The greatest monk I ever met and have known is Ven. Punnaji and he ordained at age 38 after a householder life as a physician.
Re: Does age matter?
Ayya Khema ordained in her mid-fifties. I think her extraordinary life previous to becoming a teacher was one of the reasons she was so effective, and her writing so crisp.
Re: Does age matter?
No disrespect to TNH, but "baggage" is something you deal with in real life--by accepting your shortcomings and working on them. Just seems way too easy to sit in the monastery without ever creating a life for yourself: Without ever finding what you do best, and how to go about doing it.
As for defilements, they can be worked on, too, in real life. Confronting the reality of our own weaknesses and desires as adults seems to me to be far more useful than hiding away in a monastic setting. When the time comes, and if it is right for your path, do it. Until then create your own peace in every moment. Put the teachings into practice, even when it is hot, noisy and crowded. Even when people really bug you. Even when you'd rather do something else!
A lifetime of sitting won't be of value if you can't do that.
As for defilements, they can be worked on, too, in real life. Confronting the reality of our own weaknesses and desires as adults seems to me to be far more useful than hiding away in a monastic setting. When the time comes, and if it is right for your path, do it. Until then create your own peace in every moment. Put the teachings into practice, even when it is hot, noisy and crowded. Even when people really bug you. Even when you'd rather do something else!
A lifetime of sitting won't be of value if you can't do that.
Re: Does age matter?
Well, seriously practicing monastics do confront the reality more than lay people do.alan wrote:Confronting the reality of our own weaknesses and desires as adults seems to me to be far more useful than hiding away in a monastic setting.
Still, the N8P is a gradual path, not every one is ready to jump into the deepest waters of the Dhamma-ocean in no time.
Re: Does age matter?
age doesnt matter,it only matter how much time you are meditating (1 year,2 years) and how.
Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without