Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.

Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby ancientbuddhism » Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:13 pm

abhishek_laser wrote:What is going to happen if I just show up there without informing? Even though they may live in the slow world, we still live in the fast paced world and for the conditions to fall into place for us to get 6 months off is not easy and if you couple it with the snail mail it is going to make life very difficult for us.


WPN is like most wat-thai; people show up unannounced all the time. At WPN It would be best to arrive by 8:00 AM when the daily meal is underway, that way you will easily find the guest-monk (or whoever is filling-in) when the meal is over to introduce yourself. Whether you show up with or without a letter exchange has never mattered there.

Western men are usually expected to make some commitment to stay on for a protracted period as an 8 precept upāsaka toward anāgārika (pakhow) ordination within a week, or asked to move on. If you choose to stay, this means that you will have to shave your head (Tommy will do that for 10 bhat) and wear white clothing. Pack light, you won’t need to bring anything you can’t buy at the local market in Warin. It is really that simple.
Katamo ca bhikkhave asaṅkhatagāmī maggo: samatho ca vipassanā ca. Ayaṃ vuccati bhikkhave asaṅkhatagāmī maggo.

“And what, bhikkhus, is the path leading to the unconditioned? Calm and insight. This, bhikkhus, is called the path leading to the unconditioned.” SN. 43.2 – Samathavipassanāsuttaṃ

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby abhishek_laser » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:57 am

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby abhishek_laser » Mon May 07, 2012 11:43 am

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Goofaholix » Mon May 07, 2012 8:01 pm

abhishek_laser wrote:Also, I would like to know the visa situation in Thailand.

Is there a longterm or permanent visa for monks, or is it that the monastery keeps renewing the visa for the monks.


Unless it's changed once you've got your monk id you get yearly visas and are supposed to report to immigration every 3 months, it may vary how strict they are about this and i suspect they'll only require it for junior monks.

www.thaivisa.com is a good resource on these kinds of questions.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby abhishek_laser » Tue May 08, 2012 1:55 am

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby grindlesgrindis » Tue May 29, 2012 7:23 am

I know you asked specifically about Wat Pah Nanachat, but there are other possibilities for study or ordination in Thailand. Take your time to look around, if you can... the robes will wait as long as you need them to... There's lot's of instruction and inspiration from many Dhamma teachers in that wonderland. Dare I recommend a visit to Wat Pah Baan Taad, even with Luangta having passed? I believe I do.

Thailand is heavenly.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby gavesako » Tue May 29, 2012 9:00 am

You might also want to read this article:

Research on The Integration of Foreign Monks into Thai Buddhism

Based on this model, Last offers examples of monks who fit the characteristics of integrationists, resisters, and separationists. Western monks are placed into these categories based on their reactions to three important aspects of Thai culture: hierarchy, indirectness, and non-confrontation.
“Westerners tend to come from an egalitarian viewpoint. So there tends to be at least more of an attempt to have a group process [at Wat Pa Nanachat] There’s a lot of discussing and explaining with Westerners.” The emphasis on democratic processes can also be seen in the leadership roles at Wat Pa Nanachat. Unlike in Thai monasteries, the abbotship is not a permanent position but rotates every five or so years.
Another reinterpretation has to do with hierarchy and Western monks favoring of self-authority rather than that of a specific teacher. “But such trust in exclusively one or even a few teachers tends to be difficult for Westerners . . . are much more apt to read the suttas and compare them with the teachings of contemporary teachers, compare contemporary teachers with one another, and even compare different Buddhist traditions with one another.” (p. 97). Therefore Westerners tend to rely on self-authority rather than following one teacher without question.

http://www.wanderingdhamma.org/2010/01/ ... -buddhism/
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby DAWN » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:00 pm

Me to I have one question about ordonation at WPN.

I know that english is requered to ordain at WPN, but my english is not fluent, I can read and listen, but to exprime my self is not so easy for me and comrehensive for those who is listening to me.

It is one major problem to ordain at WPN?

Thank you very much! :namaste:
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We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby appicchato » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:48 am

DAWN wrote:...my english is not fluent...It is one major problem to ordain at WPN?


Minor, perhaps...major, no...
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby abhishek_laser » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:57 am

a
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:25 am

I guess that essay is very usefull: The Lessons of Gratitude Another thought that arose was a saying of Ajahn Fuang:
"If there are any sensual pleasures you really hunger for, it's a sign you enjoyed them before in a previous life. That's why you miss them so much this time around. If you think about this long enough, it should be enough to make you dispassionate and dismayed."
, but I am not sure if it might fits.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby abhishek_laser » Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:41 am

Thanks to Ven. Ajahn Gavesako, for the additional information.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby piano piano » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:15 am

I've just been reading the following on the Wat Pah Nanachat website, and decided to compile additional info on the subject
Alternatively you can make many trips to the nearby Laotian border to acquire a new one-month transit visa. These visas are issued free of charge, but you will have to pay for a Laotian visa $30 (US) before you can re-enter Thailand and request the one-month transit visa.
http://www.watpahnanachat.org/ordaining.php


I wonder how this is possible with these requirements
Evidence of travel from Thailand (confirmed air ticket paid in full)
- Evidence of adequate finance (10,000 Baht per person and 20,000 Baht per family)
- Visa of a third country in a passport or travel document
http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1 ... -Visa.html


Technically (morally?) one is telling a lie by applying for a transit visa without really transiting.

Normally, you get only a 15-days-visa-waiver free per each on-land-entry. If you fly into Thailand you get the one month-visa-waiver, if your native country is on the list of visa-exemption (your country must also be on this list for the free 15-day-visa-exemption stamp by on-land-border-crossing).
Here is the list
http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1 ... ption.html

People with nationalities from the following list can get visa on arrival for only 15 days at certain entry points also listed
http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1 ... rival.html

What is clear so far for OP is that as an Indian you can't do the quick border-run into Laos to get a visa-exemption stamp. Even the visa-on arrival which would be the substitute for the visa-exemption not available to Indians is not worth it timewise (an Indian would only get 15 days). You actually need to go to Vientiane (capital of Laos) to try to get a double entry tourist visa, which will allow you to stay for 60 days for the first entry, which normally** can be extended for another 30 days for the payment of 1,900 baht. At day 90 you have to cross the border and then can come right back, and this way your second entry period of 60 days begins, which you can again extend for 30 days for 1,900 baht.

** Unfortunately for you there is this exemption of the rule:
Note that nationals of Bangladesh, China, India, Iran, Nepal, Nigeria, Pakistan, Sri-Lanka, Togo and Uganda may only extend for a further seven days.
http://www.thaivisa.com/applying-for-ex ... -visa.html


So best for you would be to do the border crossing at day 60 to get to the second-entry 60 days.

So best research your options to get a double entry tourist visa first in India; if you can't get a double-entry, at least get a single entry T-visa, which allows you to stay 60 days. Then after your first stay at Wat Pah Nanachat do your first visa-run to Vientiane. Vientiane is said to be particularly easy to get double entry tourist visas. Penang/Malaysia is also easy, but in both these places you can be denied a double entry tourist visa after the third or so renewal. But if you're serious you are ordained until then. :anjali:
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby appicchato » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:59 am

Vientiane is said to be particularly easy to get double entry tourist visas. Penang/Malaysia is also easy...


Not wishing to dispute, nor refute, but 'particularly easy' simply does not apply when applying for double entry visas (Vientiane/Penang), no matter the nationality...with Thais you never, ever, know for sure, about anything...Malaysians not so much, but still in the same category...Penang in particular...

The best course of action is to have a double entry visa in hand before coming to Thailand...the alternative is a very real gamble...

Good luck...
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby piano piano » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:22 pm

You are certainly right, Bhante, a more cautious approach when it comes to visa is recommended. I should have worded it more cautiously myself, like saying: "According to a recent report from Vientiane it appeared as easy to get a double-entry Tourist visa. The applicant was not even asked any question whatsoever".

But things may change, as we all know so well, and that possibly even from person to person. After all, no one has a right and a claim to any kind of visa to a country.

One thing remains though: The statement that 1-month-Transit-visas are easily available by just crossing over the border to Laos, as mentioned on the website of Wat Pah Nanachat, is most likely wrong (otherwise the travel-community in the country would be abuzz with that option, and it would be silly to accept a 15-day-visa-waiver), or it applied to a time long ago and was not updated on the website, or they have indeed a special relationship with visa-issuing officers there, which is most unlikely though.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby abhishek_laser » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:48 am

a
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby Sekha » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:42 am

To those here who are knowledgeable about the issue: I would like to know what are the choices available to monks having completed their 5 vassas at WPN

They probably can:
- stay on
- move to another branch in Thailand
- move to another branch in their country

Can they at some point be compelled to adopt one of these options in particular?
Can they think of living on their own in an isolated place?

Thank you!
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby gavesako » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:33 pm

All of these options are possible for a monk. Some monks have left Thailand even before their fifth year and moved to the West because of health and family issues, for example. Monks after their fifth vassa are called "majjhima" (middle) and this is traditionally their chance to go on tudong and gain more experience by visiting other monasteries outside of their own tradition. Sometimes they do not come back to WPN for a whole year, although now everybody should gather at the annual January 16th celebration in Wat Pah Pong. Westerners are generally only allowed to extend their visa in Thailand for up to 10 years, so after that -- unless they become abbot or deputy abbot -- the "thera" (elder) monks tend to leave Thailand and move to other countries.
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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby ArkA » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:38 pm

gavesako wrote:...although now everybody should gather at the annual January 16th celebration in Wat Pah Pong.


"should gather"
Is this means all the monks who ordained at WPN are required to travel to WPN on January 16th? If yes, then what action will be taken for a monk who didn't?

What do they "celebrate" on January 16th?
I'll restart my yearlong meditation retreat on 15th June 2014, hence will not be here.

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Re: Ordination at Wat Pah Nanachat

Postby ArkA » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:52 pm

Sekha wrote:Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli


Sekha, I could not help writing this after reading your signature ;)

"Where religion ends, Path begins. - ArkA"

:anjali:
I'll restart my yearlong meditation retreat on 15th June 2014, hence will not be here.

"Bhikkhus, there are these three things that shine when exposed, not when concealed. What three? (1) The moon. (2) The sun. (3) The Dhamma and discipline proclaimed by the Tathagata."
- Anguttara Nikaya, 3.131, Paticchanna Sutta

"Silence is the language of God; all else is poor translation."
– Rumi

Introduction: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20572
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